Roland

;D ;D ;D Yes as I posted earlier. Plus moving / disturbing their routine, tempreture / change of feed, and countless other things. But then of course reaching for the 'Botle / Med Cabinet' causes a whole can worms to develope.

From Doctor Karl – Alberta again ‘ ……………… I do not think that antibiotic treatment is a possibility as I specified that the only drug they may get is the growth promoter BMD. It is not absorbed. Here is the kind of birds I would prefer not to get shipped to me: Then Candido wrote' ....... ortunately all the pigeons coexist with salmonella....their natural defenses usually get rid of it . However, sometimes it's not enough and the disease appears. Just like we know it can reveals on faeces (intestinal system), on nervous system or on articulations.... Enrofloxacin seems indeed the best substance to fight it (it has a different way of acting - it acts on cells level...). 10/12 days of treatment should be enough.... Vaccine it's not a convincent treatment (one knows that there are no efficient vaccines agains bacteries so...vaccinating is a way of giving pigeons more "salmonellas" on the end of it "immunity".... I vote for a vigorous system and a oustanding health............. Which Karl replied as such.... That gets my vote also, Candido! We all too often look at various bacteria as adversaries which we have to [size=big'>KILL!!! It is our inclination to roll out the big guns and blast these things to smitherines ... An alternative way would be to improve the living conditions of our pigeons to the point where they are strong enough to fight any pathogens. There may be the odd pigeon who is too weak but who really needs such a bird at any rate? These pathogens may actually do us a favor by eliminating these weaklings.

Another smidgen I believe many fail to take note of is Baytril (enrofloxacin) that has the possibility of eliminating the carrier state. At one time 10 days at regular dosage was recommended for the cure. Now, several recommend 14 days. Now norfloxacin (Parastop, Pantex Holland) I had read also has the possibility of eliminating the carrier state, but I haven't seen this claim from a Vet. Kinney wrote in his book that Cipro is the "other" Baytril. As I recall all three drugs are in the same "family" of drugs. But I could be wrong on that as I am speaking from memory. I know that Baytril has been overused to the point that some strains of salmonella are now resistant to it. These days, like Owen does to an extent also to ensure that, 1) treatment is needed, and 2) that one is using the right product to do the job. Just vaccinating for paratyphoid :-/ but even that is not always 100%.

With reference to Samonella / Phara etc. This is an extract from Alberta. One of interest I feel. Yes it is just one post of very many where a few other Vets / Doctors share views and recorded findings. Quote: These organisms, once inside the body, can disseminate and cause abscesses in any organ. It can be observed as "wing boils" due to an abscess in usually the "elbow" joint, limping due to an abscess in one of the leg joints, or loss of balance similar to PMV due to an abscess in the brain. Regarding the carrier state, here is what Dr Gordon Chambers wrote: Quote:Like other birds and animals, most pigeons exposed to paratyphoid infection recover completely, either through treatment or natural defensive mechanisms, but as in the case of other species of birds and animals, the occasional bird is unable to clear the infection, and becomes a permanent carrier. As Dr Dorrenstein points out, it is still not known just where the paratyphoid organisms hide in the body of a carrier, but he suggests that this hiding place could be within certain patrolling defensive cells called macrophages where they are protected from the immune system. (Note: "macro"means "large"; "phage" is from the Greek word "phagein", meaning "to eat"-- hence, these are large, mobile defensive cells that engulf foreign material, such as invading bacteria, parasites, yeasts etc..) It is obvious that not all engulfed foreign invaders are killed by these large cells, but in some way, the invaders remain alive and isolated within the cells that engulfed them, and here they are protected from other defensive mechanisms in the body. As a result, during periods of stress, the immune system becomes depressed and less vigilant, as a result of which, the paratyphoid organisms can escape from their hidden locations. Once they have escaped, they begin to multiply and then to be shed in droppings from which they are readily spread to other susceptible birds in the loft. If they do, in fact, hide inside macrophages, it seems to be impossible to eliminate the carrier state. ?: The use of antibiotics in a deby loft is also problematic since most pathogens are probably present in some birds. Antibiotics hurt the birds that are immune to the problem and is it not those birds which we want to select for? Should we hurt those birds that were managed in a desirable way just to perhaps treat those birds from lofts where adequate care was lacking? I see vitality and health as one of the most important qualities of a racing pigeon. End of copy.

Well Old Yellow and Co regards about the paromixo thing and vacinate twice. There was an interesting discussion on the Canada site Alberta Classic where some, Avian Vets included, vacinated not just twice, but three or four times and stated as to why! 4 weeks then 6 weeks is getting widespread with a month later!

Remember to check your charge receipts before you sign This could probably happen here!!! Or anywhere!!! Most wil think not here.... but it is simple really and OF course it can work at any supermarket. It happened at Wal-Mart (Supercenter Store #1279, 10411 N Freeway 45, Houston , TX 77037 A month ago. I bought a bunch of stuff, over $150, & I glanced at my receipt as the cashier was handing me the bags. I saw a cash-back of $40. I told her I didn't request a cash back & to delete it. She said I'd have to take the $40 because she couldn't delete it. I told her to call a supervisor. Supervisor came & said I'd have to take it. I said NO! Taking the $40 would be a cash advance against my Discover & I wasn't paying interest on a cash advance!!!!! If they couldn't delete it then they would have to delete the whole order. So the supervisor had the cashier delete the whole order & re-scan everything! The second time I looked at the electronic pad before I signed & a cash-back of $20 popped up. At that point I told the cashier & she deleted it. The total came out right. The cashier agreed that the electronic pad must be defective. Obviously the cashier knew the electronic pad was defective because she NEVER offered me the $40 at the beginning. Can you imagine how many people went through before me & at the end of her shift how much money she pocketed? Just to alert everyone. My co-worker went to Milford, DE Wal-Mart last week. She had her items rung up by the cashier. The cashier hurried her along and didn't give her a receipt. She asked the cashier for a receipt and the cashier was annoyed and gave it to her. My co-worker didn't look at her receipt until later that night. The receipt showed that she asked for $20 cash back. SHE DID NOT ASK FOR CASH BACK! My co-worker called Wal-Mart who investigated but could not see the cashier pockets the money. She then called her niece who works for the bank and her niece told her this. This is a new scam going on. The cashier will key in that you asked for cash back and then hand it to her friend who is the next person in line. Please, please, please check your receipts right away when using credit or debit cards! This is NOT limited to Wal-Mart, although they are the largest retailer so they have the most incidents I am adding to this. My husband and I were in Wal-Mart North Salisbury and paying with credit card when my husband went to sign the credit card signer he just happen to notice there was a $20 cash back added. He told the cashier that he did not ask nor want cash back and she said this machine has been messing up and she cancelled it. We really didn't think anything of it until we read this email. I wonder how many "seniors" have been, or will be, "stung" by this one???? To make matters worse ...THIS SCAM CAN BE DONE ANYWHERE, ATANY RETAIL OR The Australian frowned, WHOLESALE LOCATION!!!

An Australian man was having a coffee and croissants with butter and jam in a cafe when an American tourist, chewing gum, sat down next to him. The Australian politely ignored the American, who, nevertheless started up a conversation. The American snapped his gum and said, 'You Australian folk eat the whole bread?' The Australian frowned, annoyed with being bothered during his breakfast, and replied, ‘of course.' The American blew a huge bubble. 'We don't. In the States, we only eat what's inside. The crusts we collect in a container, recycle them, transform them into croissants and sell them to Australia.' The American had a smirk on his face. The Australian listened in silence. The American persisted, 'D'ya eat jam with your bread?' Sighing, the Australian replied, ‘of course.' Cracking his gum between his teeth, the American said, 'we don't. In the States, we eat fresh fruit for breakfast, then we put all the peels, seeds and the leftovers in containers, recycle them, transform them into jam and sell it to Australia. The Australian then asked, 'Do you have sex in the States?' The American smiled and said 'Why of course we do.' The Australian leaned closer to him and asked, 'And what do you do with the condoms once you've used them?' 'We throw them away, of course!' Now it was the Australians turn to smile. 'We don't. In Australia , we put them in a container, recycle them, melt them down into chewing gum and sell them to the United States. Why do you think it's called Wrigley’s?'

Been asked by a few... told them to forget the bets. the so called big clumsy .... and other derogathtive aimed at on here spoke very well a TV just two years Back. Are we expecting a Another Herbie Hide :-/ Who beat Bent (Claimed to be British too) or what. Hayes is into promoting / matchmaking and managerment now too. A GOOD bigun will always beat a good little one so thay say. hayes has speed on his side sure, and a decent punch, and certainly read the opponents he fights regards the pit falls. .... But I fear he has never tangle in reality at this class. He didn't just stand in line and get handed his world champion statues. And Kelloggs are past giving them out. Brains says Valeau .... hearts says Hayes.... but its fools money to bet with your heart! Love to be wrong here, always upsets etc. But sorry I .....

My birds dropping were nigh brill. Then we have the clowns around with fireworks. Bit messy now. Yes had blake then out etc. Now moved then to the front.... a little quieter. Yes the droppings won't be back to good for a week or so I suppose. Am i worried :-/ Not in the least. Gosh my dropping change after a good Niss up. Or when took Lctuse etc. Or if I've eaten a lot of protein. Glad Joyce doesn't keep nipping down to the chemist and mixing my meals with anything her mates recomend, or seen on Tv -or any other Money making scam.... ;D ;D ;D

My point is nothing to do with who had the better bird, it was to emphasise how inaccurate toulet clocks are at times. Move with the times Roland And if the The Clock that wins your race is a Toulet SO WHT Move on with the time you say WHY WHY WHY??? If not broken and doesn't need fixing Then I ask YOU, what is this 'Times' we need to move on with :-/ :-/ Seems to me another case of forcing and belittlement of the members who are happy as things are THAT YOU!!!! want to move o.... Why??? Because you you feel there is a soudo need to live and race as you percieved things ought to be :-/ :-/ Cods wallop, if many are happy with giving youy 20 seconds each race, time I say 'Belt up' and be thankful that they allow you unacountable advantage and be grateful. Gosh, that 2 seconds you mistakenly thought cost you the race will soon mean that you have even less advatage.... And still you will needless moan. Grow up and accept. I mean just why do you want to pee of some that very well may pack up altogether, or be even 18 seconds better of than ou :-/ :-/ :o Ands Jesus wept! o :-/

;D ;D ;D and have 4 members to each club tops, all using the 'Ghost Timers' to raise some interest in the sport lol ;D ;D

Delboy, like everyone says, especially when it suits, 'You will never have a level playing field'. Gosh 2 seconds eh! Well obviously you was beat by a better bird on the day. We give ET's 17 to 20 seconds each race and that they call that 'Progress' and 'The way forward' :-/ :-/ It is simply down to 'Just what gives some the right to rock a system working for no more than sillyness, innate of sensible reason?. Many of us cut our teeth learning to set toulets and Sky masters, and certainly No club has a problem with them. There is one certainy though IT isn't the toulet boys whinging to have a newer time piece. When they do, I think there may be, just might be a case for the 65% to say 'Whoa on now, time we raised some dosh to buy them better second hand time pieces, or give them those they are not using. By then they will have accepted in good grace your generous offers.

Had the same result, even though he has supplied nearly everyone in this club with Bricon. Think I'm still the only Unikon clock. No as for after sales, and simple answers to questions, they are a dead loss too! Made contact at Blackpool. Decent price, £513 Champ with 50 rings. Only used it once granted. Still waiting for the simple answer.

Think your selves lucky girls lol http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/656611/d1dfcfee/live_olifant_geboorte_tv.html

;DGareth wrote Sorry to hear you cant speak the truth until you have had a drink, Lol 'neither would i laugh at a member who could not afford a stb, t3 or ETS but its not a wealth thing that you seem to like to make out as most of the time it is just down to members choice which is generally because it is what they are use too. Some truth there, but for most starters the reality is that it is a wealth thing. And for many other comittments in this recession it is a wealth thing.Granted the SB's etc. have come down, and some are moving up to them. 'As to you comments regarding a level playing field, this will never happen which is a problem as there are many areas within the sport that this applies to, i.e. number of pigeons being sent, trapping systems, how many in a partnership, loft location etc etc, so get off your Horse and stop swigging from the hip flask. Now I don't follow on this as I never implied or spouted as such. And personally I love the so called mobb flyers. They help keep my costs down, and further the reality is no different for one sending 80 birds and 10 sending 8, they are there to be beat just the same. Also many are there for a future race and not on song for this one. Just to add this topic you posted hasn't the slightest to do with ET's etc. and this wasn't, isn't been implied.

Sorry Gareth Rankin, that 'I can't see any one leaving the sport for that etc' has been said only too well and too often where as the real fact of the matter just too often these thoughts and actions have done just that. I will side with you on the fact any clock not up to scratch should be thrown out. This has and does happen in all the clubs I've been in and am in. Quite rightly so too I’d say. However all the clubs now also have spares, normally like Benz etc. So that is not a problem May I just state a real, and true fact that I was involved in just 4 years ago. I was using a toulet. Was a good timekeeper, no two ways about that! I had this feeling that it was a blunt of a joke; indeed via a couple I was regarded as a 'Joke'. I for whatever reason at the time, couldn’t see my way clear at the time to buy a good second hand one say for £60 - £80... A T3 was fetching second hand around £250. But this was never an issue. Well this horrid smarmy idiot had the gall and was showing off at my expense I found out later. He was under the false impression that because he was friendly with the so called Local hard case he was free to deride me ... Anyway he saw my clock and smirked, spouting 'Was that the one that Noah used on the Ark'. I was embarrassed! I said through my teeth that if he ever gets birds as good as those this clock has timed in he would be some flyer and was debating whether to hold back the urge of throttling him. I didn't. Next meeting as per normal I was first there and at the bar being served when he came over and said 'I'll get that'. I told him nicely to go away, that he'd get it over him for sure and that I felt, that as he was a pee taker he was 2 seconds from being splattered. He moved. Later it came about that he had been put straight via some that knew me. He fortunately left that club. The 'Hard case' always scrapes a bit to bit the pathetic slob. And he has also left the club. Good. But I too very well nearly left the club. I was pig ignorant if you like to stay. Others don't. Many make excuses agreed why they leave, but mostly it is for them very reasons as you say 'I can't see any one leaving the sport for that etc'. Who are we to dictate, coerce, cajole and put downers on others because they can’t or won’t for whatever reason act and do, and buy as we feel they should. Said my piece, and yes I do see other slants, but hey, it doesn’t really matter a jot as and how they time in AS LONG as they still do!

Well haven’t read the monologue of repeated twaddle yet that I spouted last night. Should have said quite simply any move that cause any hardship, or embarrassment that will, and does and has cause fanciers to leave the sport, often giving a false reason, should be shunned. I mean just who are we that we make unnecessary rules that only harm the sport. Who are we that we feel we have the right, they we should force the more unfortunate member to either upgrade, or get laughed, or feel ashamed. – Never mind the one that drinks his beer etc. So what, the pence he / she has if THEIR right to spend and afford as they can derive the most pleasure from. Old clock, so what! Will a new clock make their pigeons fly faster. Very many find the constant rising costs is affecting them. Wife’s know only too well, and they are quick quite often to say such cutting things as ‘Taking the food off the babies plate now are we, I mean do you really need a new clock’?! Simple answer is no. Then we will hear the fobbing of ‘Progress’! Well progress has most caused upset, unrest, lives and countless loss of jobs, and main to bolster the ‘Haves’ with a little bit more. For every one Good progress there has been a high price to pay. Not least in our so called sport. So an apology for coming over a bit strong, but I meant every word. Sadly I may have forgotten that though it is fine to disagree, it is not to be disagreeable. Yes lost three members last night we can ill afford. Yes at least another 4 will go… then the escalating costs will affect others and the vicious circle will continue. Soon the Fed will be just a big club. But I bet you all that there will still be the ‘Downers’ of the more affluent decrying those that they beat each week!

Yep nissed, Been to the Pigeon Club meeting tonight. Doom and Gloom and more expence.... had to meet up with my sons and get nissed lol. So what are we worrying about? Dearer subs. Dear birdage, and member tsking and sighing, and resignations coming in left right and centre! Why, only one answer to why and that's because! Because it's too dear for them! Simple that, and yet we make it even dearer. Some youngster have joined, went courting ... Married Too dear. Packing up. So now with this new downer of Classy timers they A. fed up with being / and won't be shown up any more B. They can't afford it … so pack up. Fine lets fine a few more ways of kicking those that can't afford. Belittle them a mite more and place a few more stenches laid upon on them. So it makes a few more pack up, heaven knows we certainly afford that. And just why? I mean just what does it matter if a youngster get enjoyment out of using an old clock.... at least he's flying and paying subs and birdage! They brings in £150 at least that isn't shared between those of you haven't got shot of them... yet! Topic closed for me as I'm getting peeved off with such selfish, thoughtless codswallop. Because there just isn't any reason whatsoever for it Let them fly, tetter and tatter behind their’ backs - they know you do any way, which is often another straw to heavy and they pack up. Of course on the other hand there are far too many payers, and members in this sport, so be good to get rid of a few.

Yep, but as a wise man said, 'All truth needs a bit of the bevy (Achahole tic tic hee ) .... because the truth is so much more forth coming. Indeed the truth will out'1 And yes I might be nissed, but I feel for those that can't afford, and I certainly don't laugh at them and that's for sure. Indeed I wouldn't use my ET until it is a level playing field for all.... I.e, All those that want one has one! But then that's just me.

Well said Gareth, And I presume you will be buying those poor sods whom you shake your head at, a new ET! Get real! I think Frank Dooman has posted some reality in his last posts ... shame some are beyond realising that the sport, is expensive enough. That we are losing member hand over fist with such bolshie thoughts. Let them fly their birds and get some enjoyment. Sure they give you 20 seconds a bird, and yet you'd rather not let them fly at all than just beat them every week! Seems to me thay are the few left in this sport that are in it for the so called sport. Yet many would rather get shot of those that can't afford in an on going and relentless upmanship, of those that they are happy to beat and expliot every week with an obvious better clocking system! Go and raise a few quid for them instead of some other so called 'Good Cause' and buy them a ET .... There problem which you wish to cause is easierly solved. Yep the good news weeks brings all those with old timers a new state of the art Clocking system so that can A. race on parr with those that have, and no need to feel ashamed and have those condensending weary looks of those that just can't believe one has to still use one.AND BEING laughed at! but cant help but shake my head in disbelief after doing a mixture of ETS and T3's at the club clock checking to then read a Toulet, laughable. Oh happy days!

I agree wholeheartedly. There are many new starters, whose hard of a shilling! Only too pleased to start off with and use as such. Sorry I again get that horrid 'We can afford’ so 'Stuff them' attitude that stinks! Never mind if most can afford, and it in reality it matters not a jot to you that can afford better or ET's, etc. Just when and how it doesn't affect those THAT CAN afford one ‘State of the Art one! Shame! Shame on you! Time, (but it won't happen) for some to take a sit back and remember. Many 20 odds year olds that have a hard time with Mortgages, a couple of kids etc. etc. and a wife that sees money - in her realistic, and one bearing credence - money spent where it could and should go into the house hold in her view! Gosh just where do some people get off, or live? Not in the real world and that’s for sure! Tis time I think for some to get off cuckoo cloud and face facts and reality! If it means a poorer member using a toulet and give away every week a mass of time / seconds and eventually Trap Shy Birds’ to those that ‘Can Afford' then time surely to have compassion and not stick another boot in! Gosh just why should you care? Oh I know you want to beat them fair and square every week and not have any advantage eh! Or just feel you want to gloat and kick them when down and not give any chance, if possible, for them to get up eh! What does it matter to you how he flies and clocks injust as long as he is able and can! Oh I know, you want a whip round, or buy him / her a new ET set up!

WHO's "u" Daddy??? The following are all replies that Detroit women have written on Child Support Agency Forms in the section for listing 'father's details;' or putting it another way.... Who's the Daddy? These are genuine excerpts from the forms! 1. Regarding the identity of the father of my twins, Makeeshia was fathered by Willie McKinley I am unsure as to the identity of the father of Marlinda, but I believe that she was conceived on the same night. 2. I am unsure, as to the identity of the father of my child as I was being sick out of a window when taken unexpectedly from behind... I can provide you with a list of names of men that I think were at the party if this helps. 3. I do not know the name of the father of my little girl. She was conceived at a party at 3600 East Grand Boulevard where I had sex with a man I met that night. I do remember that the sex was so good that I fainted. If you do manage to track down the father, can you please send me his phone number? Thanks. 4. I don't know the identity of the father of my daughter. He drives a BMW that now has a hole made by my stiletto in one of the door panels. Perhaps you can contact BMW service stations in this area and see if he's had it replaced. That would be the daddy. 5. I have never had sex with a man. I am still a Virginian. I think that my son's conception was ejaculate stuff on a tawl and that he is an axident. 6. I cannot tell you the name of Alleshia dad as he informs me that to do so would blow his cover and that would have cat aclysmic implications for his wife. I am torn between doing right by you and right by him. Please advise. 7... I do not know who the father of my child was as they all look the same to me. 8. Tyrone Lairston is the father of child A. If you do catch up with him, can you ask him what he did with my AC/DC CDs? Child B who was also borned at the same time.... well, I don't have clue. 9. From the dates it seems that my daughter was conceived at Disney World; it really was in the Magic Kingdom . 10. So much about that night is a blur... The only thing that I remember for sure is Delia Smith did a program about eggs earlier in the evening. If I had stayed in and watched more TV rather than going to the party at 8956 Miller Ave. , mine might have remained unfertilized. And my personal favorite. . . 11.. I am unsure as to the identity of the father of my baby, after all, like when you eat a can of beans you can't be sure which one made you fart.

Ouch and the price is.... two valium first lol

Yeast / Like thrush in women, for that is nigh the same, has 29 different Variants.... so you HAVE to used a different remedy at least before the 3rd Treatment! Why, (there is only one answer to because -- and that is WHY! Because Canker very quickly become immune to ANY and every treatment, a fact that!. So after two / three times of the same treatment it is useless. Nastyn is a blanket Yeast curer and that's for sure which has good results. Now as for Baytryl I say again, unless an Avian Vet prescribes it, bets left alone. Goes back to the think I got slated on regards Micro and testing for ones self. Just look at the Einstein’s out there doing more harm than good. Further there is an astonishing amount of viruses / ailments etc. that WE cause AND MOST don't show up in the droppings. Indeed sometimes bacteria tests aren't enough and need an autopsy. Better still just imagine all these £250 - £350 Micro that the buyer hasn't a clue. And I'm afraid even an hour course, or 6 months course would be useless to most. You can't diagnose what you can't see, let alone when you haven't the faintest idea of what you’re looking at! Like I state, a little knowledge is dangerous.

Destroys everything I believe, good and bad.... then one has to start again building up. Wily nilly use is foolhardy for sure. Must use when everything / anything else has failed. As a foot note, if one has to reort to such strong remedy, is it :-/ or it has to be worthwhile :-/. JMO. I personally would look at alternative measure first.... but thenwho am I? Not a Vet, who may well be the best sauce to buy. Wasn't able to buy legally at one time and had to be prescribed by a Vet.... Unless brought in from France / Spain or where ever.