midnight_son

Race Program Newbury 6th June Eastbourne 20th June Alencon 26th June Ypres 3rd July A race from the Nantes/Tours/Niort area to be chosen by the committee based on joint convoy options on either 4th or 11th July Falaise 17th July

Gareth, I think its not so much a fashion for 9am liberations as unfortunate weather circumstances in those years that have forced it. I know that my dad as race controller would never choose a 9am liberation over an early morning liberation and nobody would be more frustrated than him that 2005, 2007 & 2008 the gold cup race saw liberations at awkward times. I believe it is his opinion that if the birds can't get up early enough to allow day birds to the majority of the country he would rather wait until the following day than liberate them mid morning or lunchtime (assuming a favourable forecast is on the cards for the following days). Hopefully its just been a few freak years weather wise and we can get back to dawn liberations for the channel races. Andy, Sorry, I took one of your earlier posts wrongly, I read it as you suggesting that midday liberations were wrong for the Falaise and Gold cup races but were OK for the longest national.

Glad you agree Derek, we've not timed a day bird since 2006 and it's depressing me a bit ! Hopefully the conditions and liberation times will be more conducive this year.

Spot on ! Day pigeons are what it's all about, the 2nd day never quite has the same buzz about it, the momentum goes out of the race when it gets broken up like that.

Andy/Derek, Why do you favour later liberations for the 600 mile races ? There's been plenty 600 mile on the day performances over the years, both into the Central belt from Nantes/Tours or further north from the Falaise & Gold Cup races. 600 miles at 40mph is only 15 hours, surely that's a 1 day race ?

Hours of darkness can be tinkered with here and there but there will always be an element of luck involved. Some nights its beautiful and clear and the birds can fly on into the hours of darkness. Other nights it's dull and cold or drizzling and the birds are down half an hour before the race officially closes - there is no way of making it 100% fair to everyone on any given day. One thing that really worries me greatly is this talk of having midday liberations as the norm. To me that is not what distance racing is about, the birds should be up as early as possible to allow a full days flying and pigeons home on the day or at dawn the 2nd day. The greatest thing in pigeon racing is timing a pigeon that has flown 14,15,16, 17 hours on the wing and has made it on the day. If we stop valuing those kind of performances then long distance racing is dead. It should be imperative to bring the stamina of the distance birds into play. If we start encouraging 2 part races where they fly 8-10 hours on day 1 and then finish off another 3-5 hours in the 2nd day then it strips away the advantage of the proper distance birds and I don't agree with that. Any number of birds are capable of flying 10 hours then getting up on day 2 and doing another few to get home but only the best of distance birds (and thats what these 500 mile plus races are held for) can do all that flying in one shift. Midday liberations also add a lot more variables to the result, the weather conditions can change overnight, the hours of darkness become even more of a farce because when it gets to 11pm the birds are still fresh and will fly on into the night if conditions are suitable. At least if they have been flying since 6am they will be dropping by 11pm through sheer tiredness so the hours of darkness can be estimated a bit more accurately. What if the birds are liberated at 1pm and your bird flys 10 hours and covers 400 miles on the first day. Your opponent's bird only does 320 miles on the first day but on the 2nd morning his bird wakes up in beautiful weather and is up and away at first light. Meanwhile your bird that was well in front and would have beaten the other bird comfortably in a one day race wakes up in mucky weather the 2nd morning and can't move on. The result between those 2 pigeons could be completely altered due to a pot luck variable that doesn't exist if you have a 1 day race. Midday/afternoon liberations should only be used as an absolute last resort when we are faced with no chance of a liberation in the following few days and we need to get them up. If they can't be liberated early then they should wait until the next day and go early as possible and only if the next couple of days are a write off should we consider a lunchtime liberation.

Bigda, I think you'll fine plenty of 2000 guineas runners who go on to run in the Derby, whether they win or not is by the by although plenty have including New Approach this year - short headed into 2nd in the 2000 and went on to win a Epsom. The point is that if they were staged a week apart then the trainers have to choose which race to go for rather than run them in both, hence the fields would be smaller and the depth of quality would diminish. By having a gap between the races they can 2 attempts at winning a classic. Sensible wouldn't you say ?

Spot on Gareth & Chris. This program is flawed in the way it condenses the season for the distance pigeons. If the program was spread out and staged to encourage more birds to go back to a 2nd channel race then the entry from the earliest race would be recycled into the later races. If we want to have 4 channel races (and I'm all in favour of that) then there should be 6 weeks between the first one and last one to allow recovery time and the opportunity to set up a new breeding cycle for the natural birds. In horse racing the program is staged so that a pattern of suitable races can be followed. They don't stage the 2000 guineas one week and the Epsom derby the next week and then the Irish derby a week later. They know there is a finite number of horses to compete in these classic races and they are laid out in such a way that the horses have a chance to recover from one and be prepared for the next one. We should be thinking about the gap between races and not just shoe-horning them all into a 4 week window. Whats wrong with having a channel race in early/mid June as we used to do very successfully ?

I think the lack of Gold Awards given out now is largely a result of the loss of the Sartilly 1 national which was a very well supported and successful race throughout the 70s, 80s and 90s. That was a race which gave a great balance to the channel season and allowed natural birds an opportunity to fly two channel races in a season and I think it was a backward step to remove it from the program. It disappeared from the program in 1996 or 97 and made a brief comeback when the members voted for it in 2004 (I think) and we had a good race again. The race was flown 2 weeks before the Gold Cup, leaving a perfect 5 week break to the last Sartilly/Falaise so even the birds who are suited by sitting on babies or chipping eggs have a chance to get sat down again in their ideal nest condition. Not only has the demise of that race lessened the likelihood of winning a gold award it has also impacted on the Dewar Trophy with fewer and fewer pigeons contesting 2 x channel races in a single season. For anyone who doubts the value of the race consider the following SNFC legends who made their name via the old Sartilly 1 route:- Fortune Lady (Mr & Mrs Smith, Elphinstone) - there is no chance Fortune Lady would have attained 10 SNFC channel diplomas and a double gold award were it not for Sartilly 1 during her career. Lothian Lass (John Ellis, Elphinstone) - 7 times a channel winner with the SNFC and of course a Gold Award winner. A hen flown natural who needed that gap between races to sort her nest condition, there would be no Lothian Lass in the era since Sartilly 1 was stopped. Auld Reekie (W.Kinnear & son) - Best known for winning the Gold Cup and then being 2nd open Falaise the following season. However, it is often forgotten that en route to winning the gold cup he was, I believe, 11th open Falaise 1 a fortnight beforehand - possibly that race put him spot on for the gold cup. I'm sure there are many others that you can all quote but those 3 sprung to my mind and these are the kind of pigeons and performances that inspire people to really try the distance racing and I think a framework of races should be there to allow them to fulfill their potential. To bring it back to this thread, I think under the current financial climate it is going to be essential to seek joint convoy opportunities if we want to support a proper long distance program rather than just 3 stand alone races with only a handful of pigeons going to more than 1 channel race. I agree with some of the previous posters that English groups flying a similar route to the current program is the best option.

Atlantic, The above quote is not entirely true though is it. The number of birds is not necessarily the indicator of where a fancier's interest lies. For example I consider myself to be predominately a distance minded fancier and in the SNFC this year I sent a total of 16 pigeons to the 2 inland nationals and a total of 5 pigeons to the 3 channel races. Using your logic you would suggest that I clearly want more inland nationals but you couldn't be more wrong. In fact, I would be quite happy to see the inland nationals return to feds and amalgamations and a 4th channel race to be staged in it's traditional slot a fortnight before the gold cup. The fact that more pigeons go to inland nationals is only an indication of where they lie in the program and the fact that more pigeons are deemed capable of flying them. I'm sure all the top distance men in Scotland all supported the inland nationals, sending their yearlings or sending birds in preparation for the channel races but it deosn't mean they don't want channel races. In an earlier post you also referred to us living in a "throw-away" society where people want instant gratification and don't have the patience or the time for long distance races. I agree with you, that is the way society is but it doesn't mean it's good or something the pigeon sport should embrace. Society is heading in the wrong direction and we don't need to follow suit. Surely pigeon racing doesn't want to be dumbed down and cheapened to keep in step with society ? Long distance racing is difficult, hence the extreme satisfaction that Chris Little referred to in winning one. It may be expensive and it may be economically difficult to sustain but it should be protected as far as possible, not given up on. If I want to fly sprint races I have the option of 10 races in my club and fed, I don't need the national to supply additional opportunities. I do need the national to make channel racing economically viable by bringing together all the distance minded fanciers to build a convoy. If it's still not breaking even then joint convoys should be explored and increase in entry fees should be added as necessary, not just boot it into touch and say well thats too difficult these days, lets all fly a nice cosy 300 miles instead.

The articles for all the French races are on the site. Go into the "Club" dropdown menu and they are all there under "Articles". It's not very well laid out and you have to go looking for them whereas the Eastbourne article is still there under latest news - thats not very helpful as it does give the impression that there have been no further news articles done.

2/3 for me 3/6 for my dad 2/3 for clubmate

North west all the way and fairly fresh at that. Hopefully be a good race, hard but fair.

Just to balance some of the horror stories that have been posted here. In my club alone 4 members sent 10 birds to Tours and at close on the 3rd day returns were (at least) 6/10. Not disastrous by any means although I take the point that maybe above average across the country. It's a small convoy, no matter what the weather you'll get a hard race with a small convoy from 600 miles. In Ypres 2 members sent 5 birds and returns are 100% Long distance racing is hard, national racing is hard - it's meant to be - thats why it's special and we all get a buzz when we get one. If they all arrived home in a clatter and it was a piece of cake to time in from the distance then the sense of achievement wouldn't be there, it would just be another race. The committed distance fanciers know this and although disappointed if they didn't time in or lost a champion, they will re-group and be back to try again next week, or next season.

Thanks Gareth, 1 out of 1 for me. Should go back to bed but not really feeling sleepy anymore for some reason !!

S.Ferguson - Annan - 19.59 - Good one !

My dad, Richard Combe, Elphinstone timed his Sporting Challenge hen at 9.29am. She is called Caelan and won the challenge last year. This is her 4th (and best) SNFC diploma and 3rd from France, only time she failed she came home sliced open. She's done us proud over the last few seasons. Well done to all who have timed in, some cracking performances as ever.

Spot on Gareth. The old program before we started messing around with inland nationals was perfect for the distance fanciers. Sartilly or Falaise a fortnight before the gold cup then the normal week to the long one and a fortnight to the last Sartilly or Falaise. That was a balanced program that allowed the majority of birds home in reasonable time from the first channel race to go back. Under the current program the natural flyers can't send their birds twice to France if their favoured nest condition is sitting close to hatching or on babies and it's denying a lot of very good pigeons the chance to become multiple SNFC diploma winners and compete for things like the Dewar Trophy. If there had been no Sartilly 1 in the 1980s there would have been no double gold award for Fortune Lady. If there had been no Falaise 1 in 2004 then we may have missed out on the legend of Auld Reekie (11th open Falaise a fortnight before winning the gold cup). These are the kind of pigeons that inspire people to fly the distance and if we want to produce these great multiple performance champions we need to give them a framework of races that allows them to flourish.

Is Tours now definitely confirmed for the 5th July then ? At the AGM it was left as being a possible for the 5th or the 12th depending on the joint convoy options that were available. If Tours is now fixed for the 5th, are we joint convoying or going ourselves ? If Tours is the 5th could Ypres not be held on the 12th which is a blank weekend for SNFC ?

The pigeon survived the night and seems to be recovering well, eating well at least. My brother has managed to have a closer look at it today and has located a telephone number on the wing so he will phone up. It's an 01706 number which he reckons is not too far away so hopefully it will soon be going home.

My brother who is a non fancier has just called me to say he has rescued a YB from a park in Manchester that was being attacked by a rat. I'm in Scotland so not a lot I can do to help him. He has given me the ring number as GB07N64079 - it has a blue marker ring as well as the metal ring so someone may be missing it. He's not sure whether it will survive, seems to be in a bit of shock and not sure whether it's hungry or ill but is very thin. If anyone can advise someone he can contact in the Manchester area to deal with it or the club secy etc then it would be appreciated. It is not wing stamped.

As far as possible in my opinion. Are we allowed to Guernsey ? If not then we should go to the south coast not stopping short at Newbury or Maidstone. Not particularly bothered which of the souuth coast racepoints it is but maybe have a slight preference for something more central than east. Portland was ok in the year of foot and mouth i recall. Why was a replacement inland race not staged for the abandonment of Tours ? All those birds were trained and in nest condition for a race, could they not have had a nice little race from the coast tomorrow ? They won't be able to go in a fortnight because their nest condition will have gone. Very disappointing to not get any kind of race for them.

That was quick ! Thanks, I'll phone tonight.

Can someone please let me know the contact details for Fife Fed secy, I've got a Fife youngster in over the weekend. SU07F 4933 Thanks

I have a question regarding the preparation of the birds. I think it's a pretty good idea in theory. I accept that this may be a rare opportunity for those in the more northerly reaches of the UK to have a go at the international racing with some hope of winning rather than just an endurance event and hoping to get one home. However the drawback that I see to trying to race old birds in one loft races is the nest conditions and motivation of the pigeons. This is a very different challenge to that of a YB one loft race where all the YB's arrive get put on the dark and get raced out, pretty much a level playing field for the participants I think most agree. Old birds are an entirely different proposition, you'll have birds sent to it whose owners would prefer them on Widowhood while some favour natural. Who is going to supply the mates for these birds or is the plan to keep the sexes seperate ? Does the owner have the opportunity to specify what nest condition he would like his Barcelona entry in ? That would surely be a mammoth task for the organisers but one which would hugely enhance the appeal of the event.