midnight_son

36/40 from Thirsk with Pentland/EoS. Funny race, early birds well burst up, then they fell in for an hour then they dried up again. A couple of latecomers came straight out the North as if they've overshot. One of those muggy, very still days, always a dodgy race when its like that. Hope for a fresher day on Wednesday for the midweek Peterborough.

Glad I never knew about those Ripon birds heading past the Pentland/EOS/Traprain birds but it turned out to be an excellent race from Wetherby. 46/47 within 70 mins of first arrival (including half a dozen having first race of year)and last one home before clocks. Good returns all round the club as far as I could tell.

Aye, I had to forego the Racing Post to chip into this thread. How's The Scotsman or have you gone native and got the Star ?

Geordie, Nothing radical really and there is more than one way to skin a cat so there will be other equally effective methods. We are fairly old fashioned I guess but down south there are plenty of widowhood birds at the top of the results flying 700 miles whereas we are still pairing up before they go. If I get faither's arm up his back we might experiment with trying widowhood/roundabout at the long races as the training of natural birds is pretty terrifying these days due to raptors and there is nothing worse than losing a leading candidate at the last couple of tosses before they go. We prepare the same as we do for all the channel races. Assuming they have plenty experience as in out to 200 miles plus as YBs and flown to the coast as yearlings then every channel race is under consideration. We try and spread them out so that we have a decent entry in terms of quality across all the long races. If they're natural birds they get between 3 and 5 inland races depending on how hard the season is, fingers crossed that they get a bit of time on the wing somewhere to bring them on. We have also had success with birds on roundabout for the early season and then paired up for their chosen national and that is likely to be our method in future as it reduces the amount of training needed during the season and the risks associated with that. Once paired up and sitting for the nest condition we want they get trained hard up to the weekend before basketting then a few days rest before they go. They get increased carbohydrates in the build up to the race and nothing in the water at all although I have tried garlic and aviform etc. Didn't do any harm but clearly not essential - won't turn a plodder into a hero. For our family, we generally set them up to have a 2 day old baby at basketting, certainly for hens and very occasionally try something different for cocks. That is our standard preparation but motivation is different for different birds so its each to their own. Thats about it really but at that distance the bloodlines have to be right and are probably more important than the details of the preparations. You can tweak things and try different ways but no matter what the fancier does its still going to be a big ask for the pigeon. At some point in a typical Tours national it is most likely going to find itself alone and tired and it has to make the choice whether to drop or keep plugging away. If it doesn't have the inbuilt drive/desire to keep going then the extra carbs and the potion in the drinker won't make it.

I agree there are benefits to two on the same day when it comes to training but I remember helping to run the Musselburgh station 2 or 3 years back and you'd be surprised how many only went to one race or the other when we marked on the same night for both. Even some names who I would have thought were so keen on channel racing that they would have sent to both. Not all were skipping Tours for Ypres, there were also a few who went to Tours but not Ypres. Just seems an obvious thing to spread out the racing if you want maximum numbers to compete.

Hi Andy, Rich is the old man, I'm Jamie.

Apologies for what is likely to be a long post but this race is one of the highlights of my year and has provided some great moments. I hope the race never dies and I think there are things that could be done to revive it. I may be biased as my dad and I have had a lot of success at the race in recent times and I was brought up to think of it as the most important race of the year. I wish it was more competitive and more members would have a go at it. In other national clubs the longest race is the big one i.e. Barcelona in the BICC/BBC, Tarbes in the NFC. The most celebrated pigeons in Europe are still the 600 milers and beyond but for some reason in Scotland, we've got a downer on it. Maybe its the lack of international opportunities that our neighbours have down south. When I was growing up with national racing through the late 80s and early 90s my dad religiously voted for the Nantes race to be the gold cup when they used to have the vote on the Rennes entry sheet. This always puzzled me as at that time we were hopeless at the long race but were banging them in from Sartilly and Rennes as it was then. I couldn’t understand why he was voting for a race that we could hardly get on the result from to be the big one when all our success was in the 500 to 550 races. He stuck to his convictions that the 600 mile race was the ultimate test and has held that view ever since and luckily our results at it have improved. There are some misconceptions about the race which don’t help it’s cause and a better understanding/appreciation of the race is needed. Here are a couple of things that I think a majority of members wrongly believe. 1. That it is “always†a hard race, and there are never day pigeons and you’ll be hanging about for 3 days waiting. That is rubbish. As with all racepoints, you do get a hard one every so often and clearly if you get a hard one from 600 miles plus then it’ll be worse than normal. However in recent seasons we’ve seen Dave Pirie win it in Aberdeen timing in fairly early on the day in quite a fast race but even on a steadier day my dad was 2nd open in 2006 and 2011 timing on the day for 612 miles (mother and son). Tours to us is 612 miles and on a 40mph day that is only 15 hours 20 mins. I say only but if you think you’re a good long distance flyer with the right stock then a 15 hour fly won’t scare you unduly. I’m sure plenty on here have tales of 15, 16, even 17 hours on the shift. There is nothing better than that. I can just about remember the 1984 Nantes race, aged 7. My dad, neighbour John Bosworth and John Ellis (Elphinstone, not Wellbank) had all timed on the night into the village and were on a real high. When the race closed and clocks were controlled I was sent off to bed of course but I gather the three of them ended up staying up all night, having a drink and playing pool or snooker in the back garden until it was time for the race to re-open on 2nd day. That doesn’t happen at Clermont. It was the buzz of doing it at the longest race that had so pleased them. Nowadays its all this doom and gloom about it lasting 3 days but it doesn’t have to be like that. 2. You need an old warrior that has loads of experience for this race. No you don’t, you need a good pigeon, bred for the job and given enough experience for the task without damaging its willingness to give you everything. I hear a lot of folk saying they’re trying the long race because they have a bird that has done 3 or 4 channel races always on the 2nd day and isn’t fast enough so will be ideal for the long race. That’s the wrong attitude to take, we used to do it ourselves until the penny dropped. If you send a bird that is hours behind at 500 miles then it will be the same hours behind plus a few more at 600 miles, it might scrape a position on a scattered result if the race has run to a 2nd afternoon or 3rd day but its not going to do 600 on the day to win the race or the section. These veterans know what it is to sit out and come home in their own time on 2nd day so it doesn’t worry them. I think you need a fairly unspoiled bird, something that doesn’t want to sit out and will keep going when the wings are tired to get home or as close to home as possible on the first day. Examples of the type of bird we’ve sent in the last 10 years or so, as you can see these were largely fresh pigeons, not scarred by lots of nights out and hard races:- 10th open Chenoise – 2nd time over 2nd open Chenoise – 3rd time over 2nd open Tours – 1st time over 5th open Tours – 1st time over 8th open Andrezel – 2nd time over 4th open Bourges – 1st time over 2nd open Tours -2nd time over 3. Its too for/ too difficult so I’ll give it a miss. If you are already flying the channel then it’s not that much of a leap. A light tail wind at 600 miles will see the birds home in less hours than a head wind in the gold cup. I don’t understand the reluctance of folk to have a go, just try it. Its only a normal gold cup with 2 hours flying tacked onto it, it’s a challenge but far from impossible. A couple of things I’d like to see happen that would improve the appeal of the race: 1. I’d like to see the section, region and overall national averages given a lot more of a push. That should be the main aim of the season for members. Its virtually impossible to win any single national race outright but if you can demonstrate that you can spread your team out to be in the hunt at every race that should mean just as much as someone hitting a home run one week and never being seen for the rest of the year. Too many members just write off the longest race because they don’t try for the national averages but in the club racing the averages are the most prestigious thing. Nobody remembers who won Selby in the club but they all know who won the averages. If you’re not in a location to win the outright averages then go for your region and section averages, still a great achievement. If the averages became important to everyone then automatically more would try the long race as they’d need a time-in to win them. The thought of missing a channel race should be too painful to contemplate. I’d rather have 1 or 2 at each than send 6 to Alencon and skip Tours. 2. I think the race would be better supported and attract more attention from the members in general if it was on a different day to Ypres. It loses a bit of the spotlight when the two are on the same day and if it stood alone it might get more members to send who are currently happy to get their race that weekend from Ypres. Pigeon men like a race and if you put a race onto a blank weekend then chances are a few more would send than when they have 2 options on same day.

Well done John, great season in 2012. This is the 2nd time the FOTY trophy has been handed over the garden fence. In 1997 JB was the winner before RP Combe took it in 1998. This time it is making the return journey RP Combe in 2011 going next door in 2012.

3/4 for me, 2/3 for my dad. I reckon in Elphinstone as a village there was approx 38-40 birds away and at least 29 definitely home up to early afternoon.

Well done, an oustanding racer !

Bad luck Spider and Derek, not many Gold Awards won these days

Got one at 6.36 Well done all who are in

Hi Mealyhen. I fly 506 miles, just a couple of miles east of Edinburgh. I don't understand how making it a lottery for everyone is better than having a proper race with a chance of birds flying 13 hours on the shift and a normal 2nd day where the hours of darkness should just about work as they were intended to. Plenty longer flyers have won nationals timing on the 2nd day - its part of the game. Fingers crossed for some returns tonight as far up country as possible tonight and if you don't get one then bang one in early tomorrow, you could still win it on 2nd day. Good luck to all

Nothing will kill long distance racing faster than having midday liberations - they do guarantee a farce of a race with night flyers pinching time that is not counted in the race. I keep long distance pigeons that are bred for and prepared for a 12-16 hour fly on the shift. Ideally the birds will be away at dawn but today that was not possible but I'd still rather give them a 13 hour shift and an hour or two in the morning as necessary than have 2 x 8 hour races with all the guesswork involved in hours of darkness and changing weather conditions that can occur overnight. If you've got faith in your birds and your methods then you want a straight day race, not add in a bundle of random factors just to mess the race up for the folk who happen to be in the best location on the day. In 1998 we timed at half past midnight from Sartilly from a 9am liberation, 2 hours after the race officially closed. In the recent Alencon race there was a pigeon through our clock station timed at 0341am on the ETS. If birds are able to move at those times after a reasonably full day of flying then think of the chaos that would come from putting them up at 2pm, they'd barely be getting warmed up when the race closed and would be able to fly for hours after the race was closed or be up in the morning an hour before the race opened. I'm not understanding what is unfair about giving the birds as long as possible to fly in one day ? Just because your birds might not make it on the night doesn't mean they have less of a chance to win the race, every chance of North bird being right in the hunt under todays circumstances I would say, in fact I would be surprised if there isn't one in the top 30 of the open if you get the rub of the green with the showers tomorrow morning. Midlands national doing 46mph out of Vire so every chance for Central Belt to get them tonight. Good luck all.

Thanks Derek, will do

Ha ! Richard Combe is approaching his mid 60s, he's not sprinting anywhere on the 3rd day ! I've seen him raise a gallop when he has timed on the night and the adrenalin is flowing but I think its just a relief to see one at this stage.

Its on, 10.17 it was, must have walked slowly to me with his duplicate !

My dad has got one around 10.22 this morning. Well done to all who have got them and well done to the poor birds who've been slogging away for 2 days and more

Any idea what sort of percentage returns that Southport figure represents Derek ?

Forecast for the morning looks grim - solid rain from Solway up most of the day so could be struggling to get them moving in the morning if they're soaked.

Yes, if its Lower Gornal its near Birmingham and flying around 435 miles. 10 hours would be 43-44 mph so sounds about right. Will be interesting to see if that is maintained further up country.

According to British Barcelona Club Website the Fougeres pigeons are doing 41mph for near 250 mph - no idea how good returns are. They libbed at 10.30 and Fougeres lies 140 odd miles NNE of Niort so should be reasonable close to the line of flight and not far away from the time the Niort birds would be passing that way.

Will be interesting to hear how the other birds at Niort get on flying into Cheshire and Cumbria today. My early impression looking at the headwinds and showers once they get into England is that 10.00 on Monday morning will be a decent one in the central belt.

Got a couple this morning 3/5

Got one at 1648 - soggy hen !