thanks for the info the pigeon i lost was a belg hen i got at blackpool from peter kos . its already bred a 1st , but i think that the hen maybe had never been out its entire life , as i had it in for 8 month and when it went out it flew on to a garage and then a house roof and got further away and wouldnt look at my birds or my loft at all the last time i seen it was sunday night . so it must be dead as i had a telephone ring on its leg and you would think that if it went into another place the fancier would phone you lc