Novice

Frank I am really sorry to have read this post. For as long as I have known you I looked upon you as a role model to fanciers. I listened to your logic at meetings and always looked upon you as the voice of reason. You are a glowing example of what a pigeon fancier (dooman in your own terms) should be working tirelessly for the good of the sport and also for charities close to your heart. My thoughts are with you.

The above post suggests that your attitude leaves a great deal to be desired. Hoping that 2 lots of pigeons clash and that from a leading fancier. Oh dear! If anyone was going to clash with Pentland there were more likely contenders in the area than Ayrshire. Indeed, I have consulted a map several times today and cannot see that Stob's Camp would be anywhere on the line of flight from Tow Law to Edinburgh especially in a westerly wind. The reason why "you lot" (your derogatory terminology not mine" lose pigeons is down to terrain and raptors. While you may have a few raptors the numbers certainly don't compare with those on the West Coast.

Frankly Timmy I have checked the RPRA web site several times and (assuming you race with the Scottish Border Federation) there is no mention of your federation even having a race today. How could anyone possibly know when your birds are expected home if there is no notification that you are even racing far less when you liberated. I appreciate that Ayrshire are not scheduled to race from Stob's Camp today but that was a committee decision and I did attempt to communicate that on this forum earlier in the week. Perhaps you thought you would jump on the band wagon and have a pop. I believe you are the gentleman who once told me a load of rubbish about Ayrshire Federation liberating from a layby in your area. A case of overactive imagination I believe.

Ayrshire will liberate at 11:30 from Stob's Camp.

If it benefits the birds then that is all to the good. I can live with that. There are now many more federations to think about so that complicates matters a great deal. Fortunately we only have a couple of easterly race points this year and we should stay clear of the English North Roaders. I raised the thread because I know there other controllers on this site and I noticed that our change of programme had not been recorded on the RPRA web site. Having said that Lanarkshire were still racing from Appleby last weekend according to the RPRA. Web sites do serve a useful purpose but will never beat 1 to 1 conversations.

Information for any interested parties is that Ayrshire Federation will not be racing from Dumfries as published this coming Saturday. Instead they will be racing from Stob's Camp. Sorry I cannot edit the title that should obviously have read 09/08/2014. Edit done

When I train on a westerly route I always lose even seasoned pigeons if I go past Lesmahagow. I train along the M8 mainly as I get better returns there. I'll not rant on about my old chestnut that we should just not be racing youngsters at this time of year because everyone has heard it before. Not only have the peregrines increased their numbers by about 100% but this is the time when the youngsters immune system is changing and they are very vulnerable to disease. Sorry for hijacking a Lanarkshire thread !

Maybe I didn't express myself very well but the returns at the first 2 races can only be 10% of the feds total ring allocation. There are birds remaining which have not been raced. You will remember that I qualified the term sh** by saying it was the birds which did not conform to what I felt they should be--wrong colour---wrong size or whatever. It is foolish to commit a full team to the first few races. The race programme was designed to allow later youngsters to be brought in but unfortunately it has allowed flexibility which has worked against the federation. Yes we need to stay clear of the SW Scotland area. We have tried it a few times with the same outcome. Perhaps that is why Lanarkshire have gone east before returning to a westerly route. National level also means inland but the birds will never achieve their true positions till they fly in a direct route. Cree and Cuthbert's pigeon must have taken a direct route at Maidstone and that is what we must strive for.

Absolutely nothing to do with the past racing whatsoever. The lack of entries is complex but mainly dummies spat out because decisions at AGMs did not suit. There are many fanciers who have not flown a pigeon yet this young bird season which I am sure is due the above, Young Bird Sickness and the fact that the race programme repeats itself from race 4 to 6 with a longer race for race 7 (race 4 and 5 have been modified to more easterly race points to suit some fanciers). To those fanciers who have sought convoying elsewhere I hope there is still an Ayrshire federation which they can compete with in future should they decide to do so. For any fancier who wishes to compete at National level with either organisation their birds need to race a westerly route into Ayrshire. If they fly up the east coast route and turn west at the borders I am afraid they will not make the result even though they may have outraced the winner.

My mistake Charlie I assumed it would have been a youngster.

7741 should belong to Ian Scope. This was a donation to the Kilmarnock sale. I believe it is a red pigeon.

Distance and raising the standards by flying in a National Club is everything. Racing North is a cop out by those who could not win when they went South. If you don't test your birds they will deteriorate. Initially they formed a club with a radius designed to exclude John Barr and myself. They then opened the radius when they realised their organisation was uneconomic with the current radius. They have losses as well there is no doubt of that. It says it all when the worst flier in my club went with them and won his first race. See the post by Greg Large on another thread and look no further!

There is a great deal of common sense in the post above from Greg Large and I am sure it is a contributing factor.

Thanks Kenny. Every piece of information helps to complete the picture. Actually I was hoping it had been a Gretna pigeon but no matter which way we look at it the area from Dumfries and above looks like a disaster area as far as liberations are concerned. I think the wise men of Lanarkshire realised this when they composed their race Programme and that is the reason they swing out east before continuing down the M6.

Good gesture Charlie-what race was it from Dumfries or Gretna?

The met office have issued a severe weather warning for Northern England and Southern Scotland for Saturday. The warning is for heavy persistent showers.

Is that good or bad news?

I believe at one point in time Baroness Young (I think it was but could be wrong) proposed taste aversion but never explained what to use. Now is actually the time we should be allowing unrung birds their freedom for maximum strike rate.

Some day when it is too late we will all realise that we should not have been racing youngsters at this time of year.

No Ayrshire and Midland use a different site at the golf course. I think access is difficult if your trucks are bigger.

They are certainly not clearing the area of liberation. We have had 2 races and the weather was acceptable both races. It seems as though they have been liberated in a lion's den. I wonder if we will have better returns from Appleby this week. I may just play safe.

That's good going Stevie. It just does not get much better than that. I had 2 reports of the Solway race one via Alastair Henderson to say a good race and one from a guy in Dumfries who reported a poor race. It's now loaded 2:1 in favour of a good race so I will go with that.

That's about the same distance as the Port. If you can give me the post code for where you are working I will collect it from you some time tomorrow. I assume you travel via M8 and M77.

stuart it is mine it should be a dark pigeon---possibly a hen. I had a bad toss on Thursday and just picked up one of the missing youngsters from Frank Lawrie.

Interesting post Mike. I wonder if they were wearing Ayrshire rings? There will always be multiple reasons for poor racing but there is no doubt that, especially at this time of year, the peregrine falcon is a major contributor. There are fanciers also racing birds which are ill and birds which are poorly trained and have no idea how to find water in the basket. Unfortunately the virus which causes YBS seems to have no affect on the peregrine falcon. A few years ago the word peregrine never featured much in my posts. Indeed, I struggled to spell it correctly. Now I have no problem with the spelling. I suppose practice makes perfect. As far as the Solway race is concerned I heard that returns to the Dumfries area were poor and there were not many second day pigeons. What a joke even talking about second day birds from 60 mile races.