you could possibly be right clockman, but really what i was meaning was we had never heard of paramyxovirus a long time ago ,i only used the 20 years as a" long time ago " as a young fancier racing pigeons, we never had any bother or even had heard of this, im sure many of the older fanciers would agree with that,,,anyway after saying that ,i found brunos article to be most interesting, and would just wonder what his answer to his e mail would say,,it is only my opinion that since the vaccination started, racing has not been the same, more pigeons lost, looking at an old loft book ,which you will see , in 1958 started off with 9 ybs from the nest went every toss, race, right to the yb nat, which was cheltenham then ,finished up with 7 ybs, for some reason or another im quite sure that couldnt be done today,and this was the norm with many fanciers, the velocities were just as fast [or slow ]as todays , but we never lost as many birds. p,s it could have been 22 years ago ;D ;D ;D