dandydoo

Concentrate then boys ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yes Robin

Johno wasnt under AOCB and it wasnt a council approved proposal ...but this is not the end and i wont moan on a forum ...i will do something about it. it was from the floor from Fanciers ...dont want to say too much to jeopardise what i will do

I dont contextually understand the question ....i.e. whats going on where i.e. PP individual threads or what .... Are you asking for a synopsis of the debtors thread ...... generally or specifically ;)

Does the deterent fuelled by green or pig energy ?

What about the poor hen ...how will she be feeling ...hope you have introduced her to a better more gracious Cock ....she will be fed up ..nah most likely glad to get rid of a novice

No offence none whatsoever ......

I know that some people put it in the corn ..let it dry in and then crumble it ...some ppl put it in the water reduced ....what a mess!!!!

He means a ferret in their breeks Sean. sorry breeks is in your trouser leg. Apart from the conspiracy ....there is a wee bit of a theft going on here ....what happened to the money you paid .... thats not a pigeon matter but Theft

So your not Peter Walter then????? ;) So your not a member of the RPRA then? Hope when the RPRA are voting you will not take part. You had a pop at SNFC members for turning out and not flying :o Read the post, stop being paranoid I was saying you were a clever man and not a mischief maker ...but you have one aim to get revenge from the SHU. Fine but you may be taking it out on those people who were not there when the decisions you feel were unjust were taken. Is it still the same elected fanciers that made the decisions that are on the SHU board? I would doubt it. You are a man on a mission good luck to you ...i just thought from your earlier posts that there was concensus ;)

Peter (Tenyears) I am not going to get into a BIG ARGUMENT WITH YOU... DONE THAT HAVE THE T-SHIRT. YOU ARE A CLEVER MAN BUT SO BITTER AGAINST THE SHU AND SO PRO THE RPRA IT IS DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO BE OBJECTIVE IN ANY GIVEN SITUATION . You have a personal grievance with the SHU as the Board knows. On the facts Rick has presented it seems unfair. YOU WILL DESTROY YOURSELF IF YOU KEEP SEEKING REVENGE. I BELIEVE THE RPRA HAVE ACCEPTED YOU TO FLY WITH THEM DESPITE YOUR SUSPENSION SO I HOPE THAT YOU ARE ENJOYING FLYING YOUR BIRDS AGAIN. MAKE THAT YOUR PURPOSE, NOT SEEKING REVENGE AND RETRIBUTION. ACCEPT SMALL MINDEDNESS AND INJUSTICE TAKES PLACE IN ALL UNIONS ...USUALLY BY FANCIERS IN WEE CLUBS WANTING TO RID THEMSELVES OF COMPETITION. BEING HELL BENT ON GETTING WHOEVER FOR WHATEVER YOU SEE AS AN INJUSTICE DOES NOT HELPTHE SPORT IN MOVING FORWARD. REALLY THOUGHT YOU WERE WITH ME ON TRYING TO IMPROVE THINGS. REALLY YOU WERE ONLY WAXING LYRICAL TO SERVE YOUR OWN ENDS ...TO GET THE SHU > YOU EPITOMISE MY POINT ...SADLY

Dont know the full story ....there was also a furore over someone getting a position in the RPRA Scotland and that Doo was allegedly registered to another. Once again tho delegates chang you could one decision to a situation one year and another the next

ME, The SHU have not brought the sport into disrepute ...it is a FEW fanciers themselves becoming entrenched in petty disputes and just getting silly. It seems to be prevelant all over the place ...read the General Board rockinrick "suspensions" Look on here and at the BHW and the RPRA/ ETS debacle, financial situation etc ...look at the difficulties the NFC are having retaining numbers and the financial situation. NO organisations seem to have their troubles to seek. At least in Scotland you can get a vote the RPRA you have to rely on a region delegate to make your or your regions case and that can EASILY be overturned by other regions

Firstly ME .... I would agree with you entirely we wouldnt have got a vote. Once again most of these posts by myself and other on Pigeon Politics are about those people who are delegates and management committee of the various organisations. ALL organisations I say again its AGM time do you trust and have confidence in. Go to your club/fed/union AGM ...make sure who you vote for whom you think will do a good job.Make the time and effort to make sure you get the right result Comminication is paramount ...if hard decisions have to be made ...make sure the fanciers know about it and understand it a wee newsheet every quarter would go along way.Feedback member questionnaires " a wee true story ...i was working with a group ...who were up in arms because the National body decided they weren't to have their meetings in the local town hall instead they would bus them 10 miles to another hall. People were up in arms at this interference and making decision centrally ...to cut a long story short the National group had moved them becos of an asbestos health hazard not becos they were being bloody minded ...but no -one thought to tell the local group and they were away to resign and go it alone ...simple sad burt true" Remember to hold your delegates to account i.e. make sure your clubs or feds wishes are known..if there is a decision to be made make sure your delegate knows how you(s) feel. It is easy for a delegate to say ..I have been instructed by the people i represent to say/vote this way and the reasons are.... rather than have to vote on something they are not sure how to. Choose someone who has a bigger picture view ...someone who wants to promote pigeon racing, who doesnt get involved in East versus West doing in one club against the other ...someones whose motivation for taking on the job is Pigeons and simply the welfare of pigeon racing. I THINK I HAVE SAID ENOUGH ON THIS ...THE FUTUREOF THIS SPORT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US. WE DONT WALK AWAY WHEN WE ARE NOT GETTING OUR OWN WAY. RESPECT THE VIEW OF THE MAJORITY AND GET THE RIGHT PEOPLE DOING THE WORK. DONT FORGET THESE DELEGATES ETC ARE VOLUNTEERS AND WHY SHOULD THEY GIVE THEMSELVES THE HASSLE AND HAVE TO TAKE ALL THE CRAP ....THEY DO THIS SO WE CAN RACE OUR BIRDS. WOULD OR COULD YOU DO IT AND DO IT FOR NOTHING. I BELIEVE WE CAN MOVE ON AND SORT THIS.

Johno you said " take on board what you both say. may i suggest if we are being open and fair there were a good number of people at the snfc meeting who were only there to make up numbers" I agree but that was on BOTH sides and the reality is if you are a paid up member you are entitled to vote at the AGM. Maybe they attended because they wanted to vote against the proposals and some others wanted to have the proposal accepted ...anyway the proposal fell and that is two years and more. Johno its not petty, it is democracy! One has to accept the view of the majority ( believe me i dont always like it) Wow! you give the SHU a lot of credit ....honestly i wish i had that much power to influence who turns out and how they vote. Our fed stayed with the SHU not because they asked us to or manipulated the situation ...it was a combination of people firstly trying to form their own union which our Fed didn't want, they expected to take with a minority vote all assets. Our fed members did not want to join the RPRA so they voted against it ( when eventually we got a vote that was in line with the constitution) We were not offered any tangible alternative except "we hate the SHU minority" So those folk who walked didn't want to play by the rules ...My point we can continue debating on this forum about who is right in our eyes but it solves nothing ...we can counteract each others point forever but it wont unite scottish pigeon racing and not take the bad feelings that persist away. Some of the bad feelings can be calmed if those people who owe money and refused to pay, should pay to the SNFC. I think losing your home is horrendous ...but i have to say i WOULD NEVER have put my house on the line for pigeon racing. I take it the person lost their case ...why was that...that is not the SHU ...that would be the legal system a judge must have found in the SHU's favour. I agree Johno ...but who put the Board of management into the SHU the FANCIERS themselves ...think who is your delegate and are they right for the job ...who has the time and the ability to do the job. It must be awful working for that organisations. You want get people working together ..... I know in our Fed (similiar situation to SNFC) people are angry at those who walked and left Clubs to pay for their rings seals rubbers and didn't pay their fees either. There is a fundamnetal mistrust now. If the SHU were replaced tommorrow ...how would that be better? ...a lot of people who left and joined the RPRA were previous SHU delegates and SNFC delegates and have contributed to this situation Yes they were there too. I would suggest its factionalism and one is in or out. Question .. If the Guys in the RPRA had been running the SHU and the motion still fell ...what would have happened then ?? I say again get people in the jobs that have the ability and knowledge to do it ...who will take a view from fanciers ...will fight on behalf of the SHU not themselves and who have the stamina to see it through. Many Pigeon fanciers are older or retired and are perhaps not so clued up as younger people ...lets get a mix of older people younger people and try and match the delegates to the area of expertise that is required. You can only influence decisions in an organisation by being in ..not when you are a member of another organisation. SHU members are not continually having a pop at the RPRA members. You feel very strongly about what happened in the past ......we all have ourselves to blame because those that made these decision were VOTED on the SHU by ALL of us. Come back johno .... you are very passionate ...come back and help us make it better

yes Johno that was my point ....there should consistancy to save the gripes that folk were singled out for undue harsh treatment than others that have gone before. I would point out that last year i know that the SNFC did chase the money and some of the outstanding debt was repaid. I would think that this year a similar scenario will take place ... However in an analysis this gets us back to individual reasons for non payment. Why did some members in the past not pay? .. say they were made bankrupt, or perhaps passed away and the family (not concerned with pigeons were either unaware or didnt see the point) You would not chase these people. Some of those that havent paid I believe did it to hurt the SNFC, to set out their protest and to register the fact they were not pleased. Many were good fanciers that thought the national should accord with their minority wishes (again just cos your a good fancier doesnt mean you have the right to two votes) Solution ...court option wouldn't have my support (lets not be childish as those who left for £30) A further letter stating that they are still owe and that it would be an honourable thing to do to pay up. Another letter threatening court action might be the way forward ....any home owner or business owner would worry re their credit rating and warrant type scenarios I would not hit their pocket i would hit them in the Pigeons ...that is if they want to return they will not be allowed to race for two years. I wonder what the folk that left will do when the RPRA introduce ETS. The English national is also been slated at the minute and it would seem plenty are leaving there. Moreover the SNFC races have always been recognised as hard race with top Pigeons scoring. Some of those folk that walked were good Fanciers ...they have hurt themselves in many ways ...winning the wee Channel Club that they fly with just doesnt hold the same esteem or prestige ...so in terms of personal achievement and gain they have de-valued their own achievements ability and recognition in the Doo world. Top Flyers never made the National ...it was the national that gave them the recognition. If the Unions HAD been working together and had an agreement or suspension understanding ...it may have helped English Fanciers being ripped off by that Steve Mckenzie or Noble .... it shouldnt be a negative thing it should be a positive partnership. Difficult with the RPRA cos you dont get to attend metings you have to rely on your delegate. The delegate needs to be aware of your situation and if he dont like you .....oops. At the end of the Day ....if those that walked away accept that they have made their point and just pay up it would be a lot easier. Dont think the SNFC did anything wrong it was the membership that didnt agree with the proposal and REALLY they were trying to kick the SHU and the SNFC was only a battlesite and got caught in the crossfire

I would like to say they should be dealt with in the same way as others have been in the past ...but I think had the motion they had wanted passed been passed they would have stayed. A bit of me says it was a deliberate act of protest so they should be made pay or we will have people holding the SNFC to ransom . But at the end of the day it will just enflame an already festering sore with further splits. These Guys dont want to be part anymore so they wont be bothered if suspended indefinately and if forced may pay up. Archie Fifer did have a point in that if inter-Union agreements were enforced it would be sorted quickly without having to go to court. A lot of Doo men have a big ego and will battle on to save face ....you might find a lengthy protracted battle in court going up levels challenges to the validity of the claims etc etc lawyers and plenty of £££££ ... all SNFC members could join RPRA and NFC and then not pay ....ONLY JOKING. It needs to be sensible and well thought and ACHIEVABLE

Stevie ...did u not see the crack wi the Fife fed dance .....I got a lot worse ...its harmless banter ...dont worry they are just jealous cos they get a Pie in a community centre on a Sunday afternoon so its green eyes cos we have a proper do ;) for our trophy presentations

I deal with all lot of this ....take your point Archie ...there is a lot of apathy in organisations. Fanciers ALWAYS say I only want to race my Doos or I am not interested in politics and scream like hell when a decision is made they dont agree with. Add to that geography, factionalism, personal disputes and Ego's a recipe for disaster ...the reality is there is a need to have certain skills to take up these positions just cos you put your hand up in a hall and get your pals to vote for you doesnt mean u have the skills knowledge or ability to take a delegate positon. for instance as part of a management committee etc You become an "employer" (who of us are up to date on HR/personal issuea including european rights) You are COLLECTIVELY responsible for the money and management of ..you could be held responsible for mis management of same You need to be adept at public speaking and reasonable with written word Need NOT discriminate not make any remark that is consider against race colur disability etc ( we have had this before too) You are responsible for public and employers liability and are wide open to being sued singly or collectively. You have to be fair and beyond reproach too These are skills that are needed ...another common mistake that is made is to assume if someone is a good fancier they will be a good committee member. Whoever gathers information or feeds back to members ...people go these meetings not on what they know its what they think

I agree Johno that is horrendous .... that was my point a Union is there for fanciers not despite or to spite them. I am always wary of folk that want power ....they should never have it. In this time whern Pigeon racing is losing members and under threat by so many other factors ...what we doing imploding and cutting each other to bits ...i believe that people shouldnt be able to take any management committee job without training and understanding what they are there to do

Ronnie apart from clocking in ...it would provide valuable data in terms of hawk attacks clashes ....etc

Johno ...you clearly are not the SHU's biggest supporter. I think you may be a bit mis-guided and shall we say less than equitable about how you see this. Firstly, Guys are posting to say any Fancier who walks away from ANY Club Union Federation be it in Scotland or England owing money should HAVE to pay what they owe, irrespective if they change Unions. Wherever you go in life and whatever organised sport you enter you have to pay what you owe Yes we get the message ....the SHU is not your favourite Union. Yes you are a wee bit bamboozled its Archie who is asking people to be honourable and to to look in the Mirror not Gareth Any SNFC member who is paid up is entitled to VOTE at an AGM, and just maybe they TURNED OUT because they didnt want the proposals that were on offer to be accepted. Johno its a fact of life ...sometimes what you want is not what others find acceptable ..but you have to get on with it. Get over it, its gone those that chose to walk away, did so joined the RPRA and started a wee Club in order to continue Channel racing. Question, had the motion not fallen at the SNFC would these people have paid ...YOU BET they would have. Question, I am a believer in democracy (even altho it has worked against me) If there are all these rule breaking going on in the SHU why didn't you stay and try and sort it out ? You dont leave cos your not getting your own way stay and fight to make the changes . You dont change things by sniping from the side lines Finally ...this is a general point ...It is not an organisation that is BAD but the people that run it. When u sit on a Council, management committee or are delegates you are there to further the aims of that organisation and promote the sport. You are NOT there to run down the organisation and serve your own ends either for power for glory or whatever. This was all about ETS ..but its history now just like the introduction of seat belta and the smoking ban. I didn't move down to England so i could still have a cigarette in a Pub

Remeber the Pics

Oooh well maybe I was right first time round .....am given up cos i canny even write GOLF its Golg now

Andy ..wished i had said that lolol yir spot on