I was not inferring to Your personal birds Owen, i was asking about Your Federation's or National organisation's birds. The reason for the question was quite simple. WE that is Lanarkshire Federation are absolutely delighted with the HUGE investment we have made in upgrading from the wicker baskets that require feeding to be scattered into the baskets to feed the birds whilst away for 2/3 day races. The problems in relation to that are imo not in the least bit concerning to us now and neither is the availability of water to the birds whilst in transit or situ at the race points. Our returns, especially in the Yb program where i would expect difficulties to show up quickest were quite simply tremendous this season, our first with the new Geraldy transporters, i myself started wit 32 and ended up with 25, very acceptable to me when comparing with previous seasons on the old transporters. I know a fancier who started with 92 Yb's this season and finished with 79. So my suggestion is that WE have things as good as they can get but you are clearly looking for improevments in Your area, which i applaud you for. None the less, this forum will not give you any more Facts than you started with and in that respect i agree with Gareth Rankin, this thread has run its course and should be put to bed until you have some more difinitive information to share with us. Sincerely i wish you ATVB in your venture and look forward to reading your final analysis when you reach it. Cheers John.