Breeding Better Pigeons

[Guest spin cycle]

i'm not sure what out crossing is......but i've always x bred...it taken me quite along time to get to the stage where i've my own tested pigeons put to stock...but i'm just about there having 4 pairs that have scored (or bred) section and/or fed at 250-300 miles. for a new starter i would advise breeding of the race team at first. buying stock is ok but how do you know they will do you any good?? and it takes years before you know via the basket. even now i look at my remaing untried stock and wonder if i should move them on as they've been in loft for 2 years.....ideally i suppose i'd put them in aviary until i saw how their progeny fair. i believe there is an argument for moving stock round every 2 years because if the birds produce winners,ok, you can't breed anymore but at least you can put those to stock...but if they don't throw winners you've not wasted more years/effort.....sorry if its a bit muddled i'm just having this 'argument of what i should do with my own stock loft' myself

[dal2]

i'm not sure what out crossing is......but i've always x bred...it taken me quite along time to get to the stage where i've my own tested pigeons put to stock...but i'm just about there having 4 pairs that have scored (or bred) section and/or fed at 250-300 miles. for a new starter i would advise breeding of the race team at first. buying stock is ok but how do you know they will do you any good?? and it takes years before you know via the basket. even now i look at my remaing untried stock and wonder if i should move them on as they've been in loft for 2 years.....ideally i suppose i'd put them in aviary until i saw how their progeny fair. i believe there is an argument for moving stock round every 2 years because if the birds produce winners,ok, you can't breed anymore but at least you can put those to stock...but if they don't throw winners you've not wasted more years/effort.....sorry if its a bit muddled i'm just having this 'argument of what i should do with my own stock loft' myself

 

 

Jock Jamieson of Annan, a legend in pigeons this neck of the woods, told me that he swapped his stock pairs round EVERY YEAR cos he was always looking for something better?

 

The diffo between getting a team of distance birds compared to a sprint team is quite substantial in my opinion!

[Guest spin cycle]

i think you're right about the distance thing....once you get to 400 it seems very difficult....i would trust virtually all my own pigeons to 300 (perth to me)... and most to 350 (frserburgh).....but few to thurso (400)....so much so i'm wondering whether to bother and stick to middle distance

[dal2]

i think you're right about the distance thing....once you get to 400 it seems very difficult....i would trust virtually all my own pigeons to 300 (perth to me)... and most to 350 (frserburgh).....but few to thurso (400)....so much so i'm wondering whether to bother and stick to middle distance

 

 

Try it mate... Its the best buzz honest, 11-15 hours plus on the wing and when ye clock ye know that you have deffo done things right!

[geordie1234]

Was told by a top fancier if you bred 50 youngbirds and got two to score high up in the national as 2 year olds you had a gd breeding that season

 

Ps channel racing 500 miles plus nationals

[just ask me]

getting birds to win sprint races in a hot region is tough racing

 

ask most of the lads in Belgium who moved from sprint to middle and longer what they think of the competion on sprint races some of the legends learned there craft at the shorter stuff

 

there are parts of Scotland where the majority of fanciers are distance minded that is the same in most places in the uk and ireland but try racing in the dublin fed where 10,000 or more birds race at 200 mile the same with the nipa these races are hard to win will most birds fly this distance no doubt but to get one ahead of the batch when you are racing in a sprint area can be quite tough

[dwh]

Ye thanks for that!

 

Owen you must start somewhere, yes, like you did with your first cock on the Bull?? Unproven, yes??

 

So come on mate, novices or fanciers wanting to develop and improve must put their faith in the pedigree or information about the fanily it comes from?

 

So winners to winners to start is impossible and you then have to make a judgement call on the blood you bring in?

 

How do you pick a pigeon from a loft where you have no knowledge of breeding or form? What kinds of things do you go for?

SPOT ON STEVIE

ME IF I WAS INTRODUCING I WOULD GO NO FARTHER THAN MY BEST M8'S

TOP FLYERS IN OUR AREA

I KNOW I WILL GET OF THEIR BEST

NO GUARENTEED SUCCESS BUT WHERE IS ANYTHING

JUST REDUCING THE ODDS

THE REST IS UPTO YOU AND LADY LUCK

[dal2]

getting birds to win sprint races in a hot region is tough racing

 

ask most of the lads in Belgium who moved from sprint to middle and longer what they think of the competion on sprint races some of the legends learned there craft at the shorter stuff

 

there are parts of Scotland where the majority of fanciers are distance minded that is the same in most places in the uk and ireland but try racing in the dublin fed where 10,000 or more birds race at 200 mile the same with the nipa these races are hard to win will most birds fly this distance no doubt but to get one ahead of the batch when you are racing in a sprint area can be quite tough

 

 

Nobody said that sprint racing was easy just that getting a FAMILY together to win at the distance is a harder job than sprint racing! They take longer to mature and are harder to keep a hold of in that time??

 

Was told by a top fancier if you bred 50 youngbirds and got two to score high up in the national as 2 year olds you had a gd breeding that season

 

Ps channel racing 500 miles plus nationals

ye harder to get them to mature to the stage that they are ready for a very tough task!

[Guest Owen]

I have no idea whether or not distance racing is harder than sprinting. What I do know is that you must have the right type of bird to do what ever it is that you want to do. To win sprint races the birds have got to be trained properly to sprint for home from something like 5 miles out and trap quickly when they get there. They have to be fed correctly and trained to fly the shortest distance. So selection of sprinters is about fast maturity, a good steady temperament and a quiet disposition. Birds that do not give their best until they are 2 years old or birds that are flighty leading to bad trapping are no use at all.

I intend to breed a middle distance team starting next year so that will be a challenge as far as selection is concerned. Although to be fair it is all about testing the birds and breeding from the ones who can do the job. The one thing I do know for sure is that there will be no crossing of my sprint birds with the middle distance team. I believe that crossing of that sort would leave me with the worse of all Worlds.

[peter dempsey]

must say this is a great post I realy enjoyed it so well done to all concerned

and a big well done to Owen

regards peter

[Guest darren cantrill]

ok then lads ive put a plan together im going to take this well bred young cock pair him back to 8 hens in total 3 proven hens bred winners with different cocks the three best young hens and 2 hens unproven but daughters of a national winner so its lambrecht karel boeckx and walter dox all sprint based back to a cock who sprints from 70 to 180 miles i will underlay all the eggs with other foster parents hopefully take 2 rounds off each im going to leave him in a section with a hen at a time going to keep all the hens single in boxes till i need them does this sound on the right lines???

[Guest Owen]

darren

what you are planning is exactly the sort of thing I did to get me going. I think you will find a wide variation in the way these birds turn out. In my case I had everything from complete fools to top birds.

Obviously the next stage will be very interesting because you should have at least one great cock from this year plus the original cock.

When I get time I will write out the Bull System for you because it is easier and better for getting a lot of youngsters from one good cock. It will also utilise the poorer cocks because they will be useful as feeders.

Best of luck

Owen

[Guest maricelbill]

no matter what system you use bull or otherwise sooner or later you must introduce a cross.

that is the original question if I read it properly.

 

you should begin today to go in search of your cross. introduce a good hen. pair her to your best and she produces good stock she become part of your family and her blood mingles with your own. that will take time. so before that you must go in search of the next cross etc. it all depends of the size of your base pairs. are they closely related? have they lost vigour? if so it may well be too late.

 

inbreed for stock. cross for racing.

 

Kanibal is from and inbred pigeon. so too is Harry. Shy lass is an inbred hen she goes back to the little black several times on her ped.

 

the alternative is to let someone else do the work and you keep buying the latest fashion.

[demolition man]

In my opinion I don’t think there are any guarantees in breeding winners one of my best ever stock cocks was Busscharet pencil pied cock he had never been in a race basket due to breaking his wing he was bred from a mother a son mating (So yes inbred). He would breed winners for fun, when I paired him to my top stock hen “Freddie’s Girl†again a pigeon that had never seen a race basket there young went to what call the next level winning many top combine position against up to 10.000 birds . A lot of my best pigeon’s have come from inbreeding, however inbreeding needs careful selection, If you have two very good inbreed families in your loft and then out cross them some very good pigeons can be produced along with many bad ones and the reason they don’t do this type of breeding in race horses or dogs is because it can be very expensive to get rid of the duds.

Remember breeding is gold racing is silver:: :emoticon-0167-beer: :emoticon-0167-beer:

 

[BLACK W F]

ask wee harry he is the king of the 80 mlers forgot also hard on the coast helps pmsl

[JohnQuinn]

In my opinion I don’t think there are any guarantees in breeding winners one of my best ever stock cocks was Busscharet pencil pied cock he had never been in a race basket due to breaking his wing he was bred from a mother a son mating (So yes inbred). He would breed winners for fun, when I paired him to my top stock hen “Freddie’s Girl†again a pigeon that had never seen a race basket there young went to what call the next level winning many top combine position against up to 10.000 birds . A lot of my best pigeon’s have come from inbreeding, however inbreeding needs careful selection, If you have two very good inbreed families in your loft and then out cross them some very good pigeons can be produced along with many bad ones and the reason they don’t do this type of breeding in race horses or dogs is because it can be very expensive to get rid of the duds.

Remember breeding is gold racing is silver:: :emoticon-0167-beer: :emoticon-0167-beer:

 

 

 

Excellent post Demo man, i try to copy my late fathers idea's on breeding which basically means 2 yrs inbreeding followed by 2 yrs crossing out. The reason for it being a 2yr cycle was it was easier to identify where the best spread of winning genes were coming from over 2 yrs rather than annually. I don't claim this method to be better than any other but it does produce birds to win big prizes, even if its not as often as i would like !!

 

 

[harry h]

ask wee harry he is the king of the 80 mlers forgot also hard on the coast helps pmsl

 

Go crawl back under your stone Numpty, at least I'm the king of something your a has-been or is it a never-been and a never will be. :P