E.T.S Pads.

[walterboswell59]

demo man so are you saying if the bird puts its foot on the line and its body is outside this is legal because thats whats happening the birds are not in the loft its foot is and my self and others are losing time every week because our birds waste time because they have to enter our loft before they register that is why we need a clear rule m8 and im ets and if this is how the shu see it ill be getting the traps where they can put there foot in and time and any one who doesnt is losing time the box where the bird can come out the sky and land on the pad is the one we should have then and its all legal pad inside and a 8 inch fold up landing board

[Guest chad3646]

15 seconds you sure? i've known a man in my club to have 10 on the clock within a minute using a stall trap. is this fair to those that use open doors the debate go's on :emoticon-0123-party:

 

 

impossible

[walterboswell59]

15 seconds you sure? i've known a man in my club to have 10 on the clock within a minute using a stall trap. is this fair to those that use open doors the debate go's on :emoticon-0123-party:

thats how billy 99 interprets the rule just the same as you gave your interpretation it dont make you right m8 that the problem the rules not clear if your foots in have you entered your loft no imo

[demolition man]

thats how billy 99 interprets the rule just the same as you gave your interpretation it dont make you right m8 that the problem the rules not clear if your foots in have you entered your loft no imo

 

part of what Roland wrote my quote was he willingly give 15 second aways using Ets on his first bird and 12 seconds on the second ive know men to time several in a minute using a T3 and stall trap some even on the same second using a T3 fact.

 

impossible

 

 

part of what Roland wrote my quote was he willingly give 15 second aways using Ets on his first bird and 12 seconds on the second ive know men to time several in a minute using a T3 and stall trap some even on the same second using a T3 fact.

[Guest chad3646]

demolition man you said 10 in a minute now you are saying several, some in the same second?

 

 

 

may be years ago you could put two rubbers in the same thimble and get two firsts not now

 

 

:emoticon-0123-party:

[b.massey]

I have also seen 2 birds timed into a T3 on same second, it used to be something about not fulling pulling up the T3 timing lever it stayed on same second, unsure if they have modified it now but I have seen it on race sheet and it was 2 different thimbles and rubbers in chambers. Combination of one man timing and the other man putting rubber in thimble and handing it to him

[Roland]

Sorry came up twice. Wanted to delete it ... but still working that one out lol.

[Roland]

A Barry Andrews is a very good flyer. His o/b's is about 6ft wide by 5ft deep with a shelve running along the back.

His birds are so tame that they hardly flinch, let alone move when he picks them up, or handles them.

He is a manual clocker. Took the first five in the club and fed against the ET boys - often a fed winner of course - once he stated what surprised him about the print out was the fact that the next four birds after the first there was exactly 12 between them. Now a fastish race of 1760 ypm means that a pigeon on ETS can be a quarter of a mile behind and still be clocked before a manual clocker by 2 seconds!

This was the results of the AVERAGE - Never Gunger Din and his magical clocking machine, of the results of the TWO surveys that the RPRA did via independent bodies, and endorsed by the likes of Frank Tasker and co who were also commissioned by the RPRA. An average of 17 seconds for first bird.

I remember replying to the ET brigade when I wrote my articles in the BHW /RP, and stated they would be only too pleased to have time allowances put into place if and when the ET Time is allowed. I said then 'Bull S**t' once in the excuses would fly thick and thin to hold and to have any advantage. Not least the stupid if in theory plausible' stupidity that they can and should buy one.

How true are them words, after the ET was brought in on false pretences through the back door.

I have both systems. One clock is anti so I let it ride. But if i feel it isn't appreciated me being a manual clocker I will inform them that as of .... i will be using my ET Timer. Plus that their silly ruling that if anyone uses an ET Timer ALL birds arrivals must be put in the results! So what, if I have 25 drop together they wouldn't hold me to that. Besides I can / could turn the clock off after a couple any road.

For right or wrong the ET is here to stay. It has many benefits for sure, and has caused many to fall out wiyth former good mates granted.

But to harp on and try to enforce the unenforceable is ludicrous and will never happen.

[JohnQuinn]

Here's what happened to me with my ETS.

A bird arrived and entered the loft, there is a 2.5 inch runner along the front of my loft, including through the traps and the bird has to cross this before reaching the pad. There is a blocker in place as my traps are twice the width of an ETS pad, the blocker Forces the doos to walk over the Pad AFTER entering the loft.

The bird i am highlighting slid around the blocker turning left on entry, ETS ring is on its Left leg so it didn't record its arrival as the ETS ring only went over the afore mentioned runner and missed the pad. I entered the loft caught her and scanned her over the pad manually.

To me the positioning of the pad INSIDE the loft is paramount to it being LEGAL to use, even if it can present problems as i've just described. I have of course re positioned the blocker so a repeat is not possible now.

The bird was my Ypres section winner in 2010 and my point is no matter what timing system you choose to use, if your bird is out in front you'll win the race. Simples.

 

Ps. I disagree with the use of more than one pad per loft as i see that as an advantage over the manual clock users who race to different lofts in their garden and would have to carry their clock from one loft to another to time in different birds, even from one Section to another is a hindrance to them if the ETS user has a pad at EACH trap.

 

Ps. Mind this is my PERSONAL position on it and does not represent anyone else's views, well at least none that have been said to me. atvb to all regardless of your chosen time in method, this season i will be using my Benzing manual clock for the Old bird season at least though will probably revert to ETS for my Yb's as catching them can dissuade them from trapping at all if they're home first more than once that is.

[demolition man]

demolition man you said 10 in a minute now you are saying several, some in the same second?

 

 

 

may be years ago you could put two rubbers in the same thimble and get two firsts not now

 

 

:emoticon-0123-party:

 

 

This was a partnership that had 10 on the clock in a minute maybe thats how they did it i don't know they used a T3 & stall trap like i said some were clocked on the same second now tell me thats impossible because ive know this to happen on more than one occacion with a T3. in different thimbles, i remember it well i opened the clock, you can believe what you like i'm stating a facts.

[Roland]

Pigeon racing is renowned for being a very poor hobby in regards 'Fairness' and a 'Level Playing Field'.

No one can reasonably dispute that.

It is and always will be a game of those 'Able' and those 'Not'. As the country grew up with the syndrome of 'Haves and Have Nots'. Bred in us... But also more so unfortunately id the 'Stuff you I'm alright Jack'. Even more so today is the protecting and gaining any advantage regardless of the price to any other.

But logic should and will often prevail. Et's are here to stay. Rules that govern them are and have been laid right or wrong. Plus the reality is that it will stay as it is.

Sealed clocks unenforcible. One Pad! Rubbish! that would mean that all sections - which incidentally mine do by choice - have to enter into one trap.

I think one has to accept. Yes of course the ET Timer is streets ahead of ANY manual clock. This will never change. Nor will the sensible ruling of an ruling giving a bird(s) a fair shake by a seconds be instigated, let alone used or enforce. I think personally it should be ... but those that have the ET already will / would fight tooth and nail to have and hold this unfair advantage. End off I guess.

In reality the Powers to be have their hands tied and couldn't do anything if they wanted on this score.

[walterboswell59]

This was a partnership that had 10 on the clock in a minute maybe thats how they did it i don't know they used a T3 & stall trap like i said some were clocked on the same second now tell me thats impossible because ive know this to happen on more than one occacion with a T3. in different thimbles, i remember it well i opened the clock, you can believe what you like i'm stating a facts.

i have timed 3 birds in 12 seconds offten with stall trap and old stb m8

[Roland]

Well I am not disputing that Walter at all ... but it remains the fact that many can't.

There was two very good friends on an allotment that had raced side by side for very many years. Bussom pals. Their lofts were nigh side by side.

First race when one had the ET whilst his mate - for whatever reason - didn't 11 birds came together, landed and trapped. OK it had happen several time before and the art of trapping meant that the spoils were shared... No longer, the ET man now took the first 5 places.... something that could never have happened before. they don't speak to each other now.

Yes of course it likes like his first first places whereby better birds etc. The truth is hidden.

Not withstanding either the simple 'Clock / Trap Shy' syndrome that happens very often with manual clockers... Indeed quite often and a lot of time lost EVERY future race.

[Guest iylofts]

NEHU Rules governing the use of Electronic Timing Systems (ETS) for Racing.

 

 

 

1. No system of Electronic Timing may be used for races under NEHU Rules, unless it has been approved by the NEHU. (A list of manufacturers of approved systems appears in Appendix 1 and is available from the Union office.)

 

 

 

2. The serial numbers of all Club systems must be registered with the NEHU, Racing Organisations and Federations using the form available from the NEHU Office/Website. No unregistered Club system may be used for any race under NEHU rules.

 

 

 

3. A Club system can be recalled by the NEHU at any time for testing. When this happens, a replacement Club system will be provided to allow racing to continue.

 

 

 

4. All Club systems must be kept in secure conditions.

 

 

 

5. All individual ETS clocks must be registered with the NEHU, Racing Organisations and Federations using the form available from the NEHU Office/Website. Only registered clocks may be used in races under NEHU rules.

 

 

 

6. Only electronic rings which incorporate approved electronic chips may be used in races under NEHU rules. (A list of manufacturers’ approved Rings appears in Appendix 2 and is available from the Union office.)

 

 

 

7. Assignment of electronic rings must be carried out by not less than two authorised officials of the Club.

 

 

 

8. Except for the provisions of Rule 9 below, Clubs must enact their own local rules regarding the frequency and timing of assignment of electronic rings. These rules must apply to all members of that Club who use electronic timing, and ensure that no unreasonable demands are placed on the Club Officials who carry out the assignment process and/or Race Registration.

 

 

 

9. No Club rule can allow assignment or re-assignment of an electronic ring on the day of race registration, except where the electronic chip ring is discovered to be faulty.

 

 

 

10. A Club Official must ensure that the electronic clock used with, or incorporated into the Club system, has received an up-to-date signal before race entry is due to start and before strike-off.

 

 

 

11. If the electronic clock used with, or incorporated into the Club system, has not been able to receive a radio signal, the Club system’s electronic clock may be set manually along with other types of clock, via the master timer strike.

 

 

 

12. No race entry details can be accepted from any electronic equipment with visible signs of damage to the casing or the seal, even if the damage was caused accidentally.

 

 

 

13. While electronic race registration is taking place, apart from officials engaged in the registration, to ensure security, all other people must remain at least 1 metre from the Club system.

 

 

 

14. No person may act as an Official while their own birds are being recorded.

 

 

 

15. As part of the electronic race entry process, Officials must check that the number of the life ring on the pigeon’s leg is the same as that shown by the Club system when the electronic chip ring is scanned.

 

 

 

16. All race entry and Progress reports/Strike-off sheets must be printed directly from the Club system and must show the Club system’s serial number and the date and time of production.

 

 

 

17. As part of the entry process, each person presenting birds for entry to a race, will be given a copy of a print from the Club system showing the entry details which have been recorded for their pigeons. If all are satisfied that the details have been entered correctly, the fancier, or their representative, and two Club Officials will sign the copies. Note: - (In the event of subsequent disputes, the signature of the fancier or their representative will be taken as evidence that they have had the opportunity to correct any mistakes but were satisfied that the details were correct.)

 

 

 

18. The signed print and copies of the race entry sheets constitutes the electronically produced part of the Race Register. Pools may be recorded on these sheets either manually or electronically.

 

 

 

Note: - Copies are required for (a) the Fancier; ( the Club; © the Federation and (d) when necessary, the Racing Organisation.

 

 

 

19. Sensor pads/antennae must be placed inside the loft or trapping area (not under any external landing board) in such a way that when the loft is closed, no electronic chip ring may be recorded by the Electronic Timing system installed.

 

 

 

20. No timing details can be accepted from any electronic equipment with visible signs of damage to the casing or the seal, even if the damage was caused accidentally.

 

 

 

21. Any ETS clock varying by 3 seconds or more per day must be returned to the manufacturer for testing. Any pigeons recorded on this clock will not be accepted for inclusion in the race result until the manufacturer’s test report has been seen.

 

 

 

22. A printed copy of their Progress report/Strike-off sheet must be given to each competitor or their representative. This will be signed by at least two Club Officials.

 

 

 

23. Club Officials shall check that the setting information, including the secret code allocated at race entry corresponds with the strike-off sheet. If discrepancies are discovered, the competitor’s clock will be deemed out-of-order and any pigeons timed by that clock will be excluded from the result.

 

 

 

24. The ETS Progress report/Strike-off sheet will be printed and signed by the Fancier, or their representative and at least two Club Officials.

 

 

 

Note: Copies are required for (a) the Fancier; ( the Club; © the Federation

 

 

 

25. The Club must retain all race entry, Progress reports/Strike-off sheets, and ring assignment sheets, for at least 12 months.

 

 

 

26. Club, Federation, Racing Organisation and NEHU Officials have the right to inspect any loft trapping system and electronic rings.

 

 

 

27. Officials have the power to detain any ETS they consider doubtful.

 

 

 

28. In the event of an escape, where required, ETS birds must have their life rings recorded.

 

 

 

29. Except for the arrangements set out in Clock Rule 38, Variation of Timing, no clock approved by the NEHU will be subject to debits or credits when times are calculated.

 

 

 

30. All ETS rings to have the Loft Number of the competing member written to the ETS ring on assignment. The Loft number composed of two parts (2 Characters to identify the racing organisation of Club the lofts NEHU Subscription is paid through and 5 Numeric Characters for NEHU membership number). e.g. WD 20024

 

 

 

DC for Durham Combine

 

NN for New North Amalgamation

 

UN for Up North Combine

 

WD for West Durham Amalgamation

 

 

 

31. The Current year’s version of Software/Firmware for each manufacturer will be listed in Appendix 3 of the ETS rules available from the NEHU Office/Website. All Club Systems/ETS Clocks must have as a minimum the version numbers of Software/Firmware listed in Appendix 3.

 

 

 

Note: The General Council agrees that up to four trapping entrances to a maximum of 30 inches each, may be set up for any one race.

 

 

 

 

 

Appendix 1

 

ETS NEHU Approved Manufacturers/Suppliers

 

1. The systems listed below, using the protocol UNIVES 1.7, are approved for use in races under NEHU Rules,

 

2. The manufacturers are listed in alphabetical order.

 

3. The NEHU does not endorse any particular system over any other.

 

 

 

Benzing

 

Bricon

 

Mega System

 

TauRIS

 

Tipes

 

Unikon

 

 

 

Note :-

 

 

 

1. Members purchasing systems must exercise their own judgement based on the knowledge of their own particular circumstances and requirements.

 

Appendix 2

 

For races under NEHU rules members must use an electronic ring which incorporates the HiTag-S electronic chip.

 

 

 

Approved Rings Containing the HITAG S Chip

 

 

 

Manufacturer Ring name Chip Ring Code

 

 

 

Benzing Benzing Pro Ring HITAG-S DA, DB

 

 

 

Bricon Bricon 5000 Classic HITAG-S C5

 

Bricon Chip stick * HITAG-S C5

 

 

 

* (may only be used in conjunction with the Bricon coloured leg ring)

 

 

 

Mega Systems HITAG-S C7, D8, D9

 

 

 

TIPES MC603 HITAG-S 76 to 79

 

MC603 Electronic Clip ** HITAG-S 76 to 79

 

** (attaches to Haspeslagh Combi Ring)

 

 

 

TAURIS Tauris S HITAG-S D4, D5, B4, B5

 

 

 

UNIKON UCR3 HITAG-S C9

 

Combi Chip ** HITAG-S C9

 

 

 

** (attaches to Haspeslagh Combi Ring)

 

 

 

 

 

Appendix 3

 

 

 

Manufacturer Club System/ Clock Model/ Software version

 

Software version

 

 

 

Benzing Version 2.4 or higher Benzing M1: Version 3.06 or higher

 

Benzing G2: Version 2.04 or higher

 

 

 

 

 

BRICON UK-0.7 (update 0x0A) Little BRICON: Version UK-20 or higher

 

or higher BRICON Speedy: Version 011 or higher

 

BRICON+: Version 007 or higher

 

 

 

Mega Systems Version: 5.0E or higher Version: 5.0E or higher

 

 

 

Tauris CW 1.45-UK or higher Fancier software UK8.17 or higher

 

 

 

TIPES Version 2.35c or higher Tipes MC2100: version 2.60 or higher

 

 

 

Unikon Version 3.9 or higher Unikon Champ: Version 3.07 (UK) or higher

 

Unikon Profi: Version 3.07 (UK) or higher

[andy Burgess]

that seems very comprehensive Ian , most not un-like the S.H.U. rules (from memory) ,but it doesnt clarify the pads in my opinion , again like that of the SHU . its open to an individual fanciers interpretation of the said rule.

[Guest iylofts]

19. Sensor pads/antennae must be placed inside the loft or trapping area (not under any external landing board) in such a way that when the loft is closed, no electronic chip ring may be recorded by the Electronic Timing system installed.

[andy Burgess]

19. Sensor pads/antennae must be placed inside the loft or trapping area (not under any external landing board) in such a way that when the loft is closed, no electronic chip ring may be recorded by the Electronic Timing system installed.

SHU rule is the same Ian , but again ,open to individual interpretation .not specific enough i feel , guide-line illustrations would help for both Unions i think.

[Guest iylofts]

yes i agree andy , a few years back i watched a club member not far from me setting up his system , i notice he was putting something in the roof of his aviary when he went to clock opening and jumped over to his garden and found he had two ets traps in the roof of his aviary , as his pigeon always came back from a race and ladded on his aviary roof , i put this to club officials he got a slapped hand and was told not to do this again , anybody else would have been banned , he was our club treasurer at the time ,,,,,,,

[Roland]

19. Sensor pads/antennae must be placed inside the loft or trapping area (not under any external landing board) in such a way that when the loft is closed, no electronic chip ring may be recorded by the Electronic Timing system installed.

 

Take away the 'In Brackets' and make it a rule perhaps. In brackets means an Example, I fear in this case.

When the Trap is closed it would mean 'Race Over' I guess and hence makes no sense.... Because the Landing board is then a part of the trapping area.

But to be honest the governing bodies aren't interested. Yes it will be ahot potatoe granted for some time to come I guess.

Besides an Airvery is part of the confines, and is confined to th loft. Like the whole back garden is within the CONFINES of the loft!