Bloody Hawks

[BLACK W F]

i dont winnge alan i dont have any problems at all

 

 

neither do i thats because i sort it oot

[just ask me]

neither do i thats because i sort it oot

 

[geordie1234]

Didnt think i would have much of a problem at my new house but after speaking to a neighbour who has fantails and tumblers etc he said he has lost 5 to peregrines this year alone so not really looking forward to letting my youngbirds out!!!!!

[OLDYELLOW]

This is in regards the normal birds that DRINK water! B.O.P. DON'T, IT IS ....

 

Birds differ greatly in their ability to cope with salty food and water. Birds such as seabirds are able to eat marine animals and drink seawater without a problem, while many songbirds can die if they take in quantities of salt.

 

Birds have a primitive, largely reptilian type kidney which, although able to secrete some salt, is quite poor at it. The ability to process salt varies between species, but most can produce uric acid with a maximum salt concentration of about 300 mmol/litre. Amongst our garden birds, house sparrows and pigeons are some of the most salt tolerant species. The capability to secrete salt seems to be linked to habitat, particularly marine environment and drought conditions. This is nicely illustrated by the savannah sparrow. The subspecies that inhabits saltmarsh is capable of secreting 2-3 times as much salt than other subspecies that live in salt-free habitats.

 

To compensate for the kidneys, birds posses another reptilian feature that serves specifically to excrete salt the nasal gland. Also known as the salt gland, it is located in the birds skull in the forehead. Although the nasal gland is present in all birds, it is functional only in those species that are regularly exposed to salt in their diet. The salt concentrating capability is dependent on the ecology of the species, but adaptive and, possibly, acclimative changes can occur. In birds that regularly eat a diet high in salt or drink salt solutions, the nasal glands increase in size. The only land birds with active nasal glands are some desert species such as the ostrich, and many birds of prey.

 

Nasal glands are able to excrete salt in high concentrations about ten times as high as kidneys are able to. This enables all seabirds to eat fish, crustaceans and even plankton, and to drink seawater. In an experiment, a black-backed gull was given one tenth of its body weight (equivalent to about 7 litres or 13 pints for an adult human) of seawater. The bird eliminated the entire salt load in 3 hrs!

 

The nasal gland is only active when it is needed to eliminate salt. It always excretes salt in high concentration, and so wastes very little water in doing so. In contrast, a kidney will need three pints of fresh water to eliminate salt from one pint of seawater.

 

Because most garden birds are poor at coping with salty food, it is important not to offer them anything with appreciable amount of salt in it. As such, salty fats, salty rice, salted peanuts, most cured foodstuffs, chips etc should not be offered to birds. It can be difficult to eliminate salt entirely, but very small amounts of salt should not cause any problems, particularly if fresh drinking water is also available.

 

nOW THINK ABOUT IT! If you did SEARCH you want find ample evidence!

 

this post suggests bops can cope with large amounts of salt as you state ???, so where's the use of larding and salting birds ?????

[Roland]

This post means that they struggle with even a little salt even when DRINKING water. Regardless what you believe and show, outside of Kept B.O.P. they don't drink water. Yes may well bath or drown other birds, but don't drink it.

It sends them doo lally first off as their system can't handle it.

Gosh just where are we here?! It has been proven sucessful many times over and for 100's of year, yet you CHOOSE to disrepage it. Don't do it then.... wait for the magic wand.

Come over to my place and find any B.O.P or S/H etc. You will find Salt and Rhubarb juice etc. most likely, but no S/H! Let alone any Percy's. Not going to indulge in this frivoulous and meaningless debate any longer. Because I know you have heard it doesn't work and as such gives one the excuse of spouting 'Shalln't help myself, and others because it is fruitile'. etc.

[just ask me]

Rhubarb juice is another story

 

 

bop do drink water roland ive seen it with my own eyes i once even seen falcon take drops of rain coming down the rocks also seen them drinking in puddles of water not bathing

 

ive seen it with my own eyes and seen lots of video evidence on youtube have a look there lots of vids of wild bop like the ones above

[OLDYELLOW]

This post means that they struggle with even a little salt even when DRINKING water. Regardless what you believe and show, outside of Kept B.O.P. they don't drink water. Yes may well bath or drown other birds, but don't drink it.

It sends them doo lally first off as their system can't handle it.

Gosh just where are we here?! It has been proven sucessful many times over and for 100's of year, yet you CHOOSE to disrepage it. Don't do it then.... wait for the magic wand.

Come over to my place and find any B.O.P or S/H etc. You will find Salt and Rhubarb juice etc. most likely, but no S/H! Let alone any Percy's. Not going to indulge in this frivoulous and meaningless debate any longer. Because I know you have heard it doesn't work and as such gives one the excuse of spouting 'Shalln't help myself, and others because it is fruitile'. etc.

 

In birds that regularly eat a diet high in salt or drink salt solutions, the nasal glands increase in size. The only land birds with active nasal glands are some desert species such as the ostrich, and many birds of prey.

 

 

I've seen a few ways that work for bops , i'll stick to what i know , as the bit above in your own words you've included bops , JAM has shown wild bops drinking so can discount that as well , as for using wormer on birds brilliant idea everyone that decides to use this will help bops to be without worms , as these bop men use them to worm there own birds :emoticon-0179-headbang: :emoticon-0179-headbang:

[Roland]

Mark, you are fed beetroot and turned red.

JAM hasn't shown me, niether did you, B.O.P. Drinking water. A tame feathered one that has to yes. And again you are fooled via the 'Wormer' they never did till it was discovered 'POUR ON' did, and does kill B.O.P. they don't use that. So instead of, once again putting downers on folks trying to do their bit, just leave them to it, for it certainly in no way affects you.

Over look the proven reality, and stick to RSPB poperganda by all means, but let others acyually do something to protect their birds! Simple that.

[just ask me]

pour on has no effects on bop ive seen bop men feed few day old chickens with pour on to there falcons and if you join a certain forum they talk about useing the pour on in this way to worm there birds its well worth a look im sure the worming of birds in captivity could not be much differnt to the worming of wild birds but then again you seem to think that wild birds cant learn the simple task of drinking like there captive counterparts wild bop while i agree with you take most of there fluids from there kills and normally dont need to drink water but they do

 

 

im sorry roland but ive seen these things with my own eyes

 

as ive said above ive seen this with my own eyes so it will be my last comment on the matter i really dont know what else to say but one or two paragraphs from the rspb (we all know what liars they are ) wont change my mind if the evidence was from some where credible i would have to rethink my views on the subject but after asking you numerous times you have not got back to me on the pour on subject ask a falconer what he used to worm his birds you may be surprised

 

ill leave it that as its just going round in circles

[OLDYELLOW]

Mark, you are fed beetroot and turned red.

JAM hasn't shown me, niether did you, B.O.P. Drinking water. A tame feathered one that has to yes. And again you are fooled via the 'Wormer' they never did till it was discovered 'POUR ON' did, and does kill B.O.P. they don't use that. So instead of, once again putting downers on folks trying to do their bit, just leave them to it, for it certainly in no way affects you.

Over look the proven reality, and stick to RSPB poperganda by all means, but let others acyually do something to protect their birds! Simple that.

 

 

I quite like beetroot , but only thing turned red would be my tongue , as to say im fooled im certainly not as Jam suggested go ask the lads on the falcons sites how they worm there birds perhaps these are lying as well :emoticon-0136-giggle: :emoticon-0136-giggle: , I'm certainly not trying to down folks from doing there bit to protect there birds i'm just trying to ensure these bops arent fed a seasoned diet that's going to help there numbers , like Jam has already stated he's provided bops drinking , you've stated bops can secrete large salt amounts so the salt lard things out of the window the wormer used by falconers so I'll bow out of this as i already know credible ways the ways you suggested other than the glass tank doesn't work and i cant believe you can say one thing and contradict it with your own post somewhat looks more than foolish and uncredible

[Roland]

Jam HASN'T seen wild B.O.P. drinking water, and niether have you. The B.O.P. Brigade took the lead from the RSPB regards Invertamin.... they never used it before, and DON'T use pour on.... indeed just why would they go out the way to find and be able to get it, when Strongrig etc. etc. is readlily available. Likewise after their Blunder regards the 'Salt that they assertained would be a detterent, certainly was and is lol, so they put out popagander to fool the gullible. Hoodwinked you are, and JAM is only foddering the wishes of his RSPB and B.O.P. friends, full stop. Anyway never mind that, nor the salt etc. when we can use Rhubarb juice, and Sheep Dip so effectively, likewise toughed glass and canaries... so perhaps more now will take them on board.

Mind the strange fact is that the B.O.P. and other carrion eater were nigh eradicated via using salt! Now chunter all you like, just delve into any ole timer that was a naturist etc. and ask. Likewise any good Gamekeeper of the past. End of.

[sammy]

more than you,I have relocated a few sparrow hawks from here and the fancier on the farm at the botton of the hill has chased away countless peregrines over the years :002:

now theres a first as yi couldnt get aff yir fat a---- when yi were up here :egyptian:

[just ask me]

nice pic of a bop i thought

[billt]

nice pic of a bop i thought

Yeh that's drinking water

[OLDYELLOW]

Yeh that's drinking water

no its checking its reflection :emoticon-0136-giggle: :emoticon-0136-giggle:

[Guest bluemorning]

bop do drink, in hot periods they also bathe very regular some nearly every day when they will top up any water needed.never heard of fish being fed to falcons before.just one more thing the use of late breds loaded with some concoction or other to get rid of problem bop.joe soap wont be on our side if they get wind of these tactics playing into the hands of rspb which will use statments like this in defence of bop breeding projects.if i was a joe soap and read what ive seen on hear im affraid i would vote fo the rspb.lets keep it sensible lads we dont want to upset the people we may need to support us one day.

[just ask me]

thanks blue morning its just when your told different to what you see with your own eyes and made feel like if i was trying to mislead the members of basics its not a nice felling

 

i think we can put the water issue to bed now hopefully the photographic evidence will be enough to persuade the doubters

[Roland]

Good Photo that! I believe that it is drinking water.

 

As for 'Joe Soap' ever being on our side, or having an inkling of thought even to our plight, let alone 'Pigeons' That has gone by the board yonks ago and will never happen ... One comment of deceit and untruth by Ken Livingston put the final nail in the coffin with the well used 'Flying Rats' vermin etc.

May get on board with song birds and such a little.

But as the 'SOS' and country concerns have been banging their heads against the proverbial door, I also think that is long gone.

Only hope would have been through 'Parliamentary' channels, but fear too many palms are, and would be greased ever to have a chance. Remember the RSPB are very wealthy and massive landowners in their own right. This money making machine will and will have, trodden down under feet any cause against them via mean fair - and most foul. This I believe most are assigned to and believe it will never alter.

Certainly not in our life time.

[just ask me]

on the subject of ivermectin pour on i could of posted lots of personal reports of people using it even directly on there birds there 100s out there

 

but i found this document by the fda anyone works in the pharmaceutical industry will know this crowd lol everything has to go though them

 

 

in short it says the substance is of danger to a number of species but of low toxicity to birds im sure in there report they would have mentioned bop falcons etc

 

i hope this helps to clear up this subject also

 

 

 

 

Environmental assessment of avermectins by the US food and drug administration

 

Purchase

$ 31.50

Raanan A. Bloom, a and John C. Matheson IIIa

aDivision of Toxicology and Environmental Sciences, Center for Veterinary Medicine, Food and Drug Administration, Washington, DC, USA

 

Available online 13 November 2002.

Abstract

The Center of Veterinary Medicine (CVM) of the Food and Drug Administratio n (FDA) is required under the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) to include in its decision making, an objective consideration of the potential environmental impacts associated with each contemplated action. As part of the application process for new animal drugs, detailed data must be submitted in order to develop a prediction of the environmental fate and effects of the drug and/or its active metabolites. Ivermectin (22,23-dihydroavermectin B1) is a highly active antiparasitic animal drug utilized in a variety of injectable, oral and topical formulations. Residues of this drug may reach the environment through manufacturing and animal wastes and may potentially have effects of terrestrial and aquatic organism. A comprehensive data base has been submitted to the FDA in support of the environmental assessments for ivermectin drug products. Detailed information has been submitted on the physical and chemical properties, introduction, fate and effects of the ivermectins in the environment. These data indicate that ivermectin binds tightly to soil and is subject to photodegradation and biotransformation to less active compounds. In contrast, ivermectin is highly toxic to certain aquatic organisms but would not be expected to partition into the aquatic environment. Much lower toxicity has been demonstrated toward bacteria, fungi, earthworms, plants and birds. CVM evaluated ivermectin products based on the use of pattern of the product, the metabolism pattern in target animal, calculations of potential ivermectin residue concentrations in the environment and data on persistence, soil sorption and acute toxicity in aquatic and terrestrial environments.

[Guest bluemorning]

Good Photo that! I believe that it is drinking water.

 

As for 'Joe Soap' ever being on our side, or having an inkling of thought even to our plight, let alone 'Pigeons' That has gone by the board yonks ago and will never happen ... One comment of deceit and untruth by Ken Livingston put the final nail in the coffin with the well used 'Flying Rats' vermin etc.

May get on board with song birds and such a little.

But as the 'SOS' and country concerns have been banging their heads against the proverbial door, I also think that is long gone.

Only hope would have been through 'Parliamentary' channels, but fear too many palms are, and would be greased ever to have a chance. Remember the RSPB are very wealthy and massive landowners in their own right. This money making machine will and will have, trodden down under feet any cause against them via mean fair - and most foul. This I believe most are assigned to and believe it will never alter.

Certainly not in our life time.

 

 

 

 

the rpra should flex some muscle and let joe soap know whats going on.it should have the cash to fight back a little.even if the fees go up a little to do this,it would save hundreds on birds taken by bop.i cant see the point of everyone getting heated surley we are all on the same side.