Babies Dying In Nest

[Roland]

I read on the Alberta Classic this post from Gordon Chambers.

Karl has said to in the past that I can use anything that may be of use / interest to pigeon fanciers.

Hence I feel this may well be of an interest to many.

 

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:09 pm Post subject: Death of Newly Hatched Youngsters

 

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It is likely that a number of fanciers are getting ready to pair their birds to have early YBs for darkening. In the past there have been problems with nest pads that were re-used. Some of the re-used pads in past years have been contaminated with E. coli organisms which have entered the still wet navel of newly hatched YBs and killed them at 1-2 days of age. At the present time, it appears that some of the new nest pads themselves have been the culprits responsible for these early deaths. A US veterinary colleague who does a lot of work with pigeons has advised me that he has seen numerous such cases. It seems that the problem varies quite a bit depending on where the pads are produced. Those from eastern European countries are apparently the worst. The newly hatched YBs die of respiratory failure from the inhalation of presently unidentified toxic fumes left over from the manufacture of the pads. Newly hatched YBs have their beaks resting directly on the nest pad, and hence inhale a far greater amount of the solvent vapours than their parents do. This fact, plus an immature respiratory system, make the YBs vulnerable to any inhaled toxin, such as solvent vapours. At post mortem affected YBs have very red, WET lungs caused by the inhalation of these toxic vapours. If they survive past 4 days of age, they are usually fine. The most practical solution is to remove the offending pads, find some other type of bedding, and wash and dry the nest bowls thoroughly before they are re-used. Avoiding the pads and using some other type of nesting material seems to solve the problem. As I said the toxins responsible for these losses are presently unidentified. I have wondered if thoroughly washing all such the pads in soap and hot water and drying them in the sun might be one answer also. I am going to try this approach in the coming year. I have used pads for years and have never encountered this problem but I will be a lot more cautious with their use from now on. Does anyone know where to buy known safe nest pads? Thanks. Gord.

[JohnQuinn]

Dip them in Bleach, Kills ALL Known Germs"DEAD"

[lanarkshire lad]

I read on the Alberta Classic this post from Gordon Chambers.

Karl has said to in the past that I can use anything that may be of use / interest to pigeon fanciers.

Hence I feel this may well be of an interest to many.

 

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:09 pm Post subject: Death of Newly Hatched Youngsters

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

It is likely that a number of fanciers are getting ready to pair their birds to have early YBs for darkening. In the past there have been problems with nest pads that were re-used. Some of the re-used pads in past years have been contaminated with E. coli organisms which have entered the still wet navel of newly hatched YBs and killed them at 1-2 days of age. At the present time, it appears that some of the new nest pads themselves have been the culprits responsible for these early deaths. A US veterinary colleague who does a lot of work with pigeons has advised me that he has seen numerous such cases. It seems that the problem varies quite a bit depending on where the pads are produced. Those from eastern European countries are apparently the worst. The newly hatched YBs die of respiratory failure from the inhalation of presently unidentified toxic fumes left over from the manufacture of the pads. Newly hatched YBs have their beaks resting directly on the nest pad, and hence inhale a far greater amount of the solvent vapours than their parents do. This fact, plus an immature respiratory system, make the YBs vulnerable to any inhaled toxin, such as solvent vapours. At post mortem affected YBs have very red, WET lungs caused by the inhalation of these toxic vapours. If they survive past 4 days of age, they are usually fine. The most practical solution is to remove the offending pads, find some other type of bedding, and wash and dry the nest bowls thoroughly before they are re-used. Avoiding the pads and using some other type of nesting material seems to solve the problem. As I said the toxins responsible for these losses are presently unidentified. I have wondered if thoroughly washing all such the pads in soap and hot water and drying them in the sun might be one answer also. I am going to try this approach in the coming year. I have used pads for years and have never encountered this problem but I will be a lot more cautious with their use from now on. Does anyone know where to buy known safe nest pads? Thanks. Gord.

Why dont you go to the same place you got the ones you have been successfull with before.?

[lanarkshire lad]

Why dont you go to the same place you got the ones you have been successfull with before.?

Please let the rest of us know which ones you have been succsessfull with.

Then we can feel safe to buy them.

[Roland]

Why dont you go to the same place you got the ones you have been successfull with before.?

 

'lanarkshire lad' what you on about

I posted what might be of an interest to some fanciers. Especially those that have used and had dying youngsters a few days old!

I, personally, have never used, nor am ever likely to, used any pads / felt etc. whatsoever.

I use tobacco stalks, which I attest to.

But for those that have lost youngster - and as the Felt Pads' are deemed responcible for many deaths I have just shed light and another angle to it from a renowned and respected Vet and pigeon fancier..

[lanarkshire lad]

'lanarkshire lad' what you on about

I poste what might beof an interest to some fanciers. Especially those that have used and had dying youngsters!

I personally have never used, nor am ever likely to, used any pads whatsoever.

I use tobacco stalks, which I attest to.

But for those that have lost youngster - and as the Felt Pads' are deemed responcible I have just shed light and another angle to it.

You clearly state you have used pads for years and never had any problems.

[Roland]

lanarkshire lad says' ......... You clearly state you have used pads for years and never had any problems'. End of quote

 

I say Behave lanarkshire lad If you state and can show that! Then I will donate £25 you any charity of your choice.

[lanarkshire lad]

 

 

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:09 pm Post subject: Death of Newly Hatched Youngsters

 

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I have used pads for years and have never encountered this problem

this is what you said roland

[Roland]

lanarkshire lad

Re - read, it is quoting an article written by the Canadian Vet on the Alberta Classic site. This I have made perfectly clear from the very first paragragth

 

Quote:

I read on the Alberta Classic this post from Gordon Chambers.

Karl has said to in the past that I can use anything that may be of use / interest to pigeon fanciers.

Hence I feel this may well be of an interest to many.

 

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:09 pm Post subject: Death of Newly Hatched Youngsters

 

P.s. lanarkshire lad

I'll forgive your oversight lol

[lanarkshire lad]

lanarkshire lad

Re - read, it is quoting an article written by the Canadian Vet on the Alberta Classic site. This I have made perfectly clear from the very first paragragth

 

Quote:

I read on the Alberta Classic this post from Gordon Chambers.

Karl has said to in the past that I can use anything that may be of use / interest to pigeon fanciers.

Hence I feel this may well be of an interest to many.

 

Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:09 pm Post subject: Death of Newly Hatched Youngsters

 

P.s. lanarkshire lad

I'll forgive your oversight lol

Is chambers a pigeon fancier? or a vet?

[lanarkshire lad]

Is chambers a pigeon fancier? or a vet?

Roland it looks as if you were right on this one.Ive checked on roberto classic.

[novo10]

john ur right bleach them then wrap nest bowl in newspaper keep heat in nestbowl

[JohnQuinn]

john ur right bleach them then wrap nest bowl in newspaper keep heat in nestbowl

 

Its only mother nature weeding the weak out if you ask me, but Bleach is the answer if you re-use nest felts. jmo

[novo10]

Its only mother nature weeding the weak out if you ask me, but Bleach is the answer if you re-use nest felts. jmo

stoped using nestfelts 3 yrs ago when told wae rod adams to use newspaper works for us

[Guest IB]

Good to see new information on this subject, which has hit the forum during the breeding season for at least the last 3/4 years.

 

I have always used nest felts, moving on from the original 'horse hair' ones (because I felt their unravelling was a trapping danger to youngsters) to the black 'latex-bonded' washable ones which have figured in this scare. I never experienced any bother with them, probably because I always dust them with stalosan before use, and at the end of each year washed them in hot soapy water and bleach. They take a lot of rinsing and drying, and I put them out on the rope, and / or dry them off in the gas boiler cupboard, but I think that's what keeps mine safe for reuse.

 

But that still doesn't make me want to buy replacements. I'm still very wary of buying in new, and that's because of a lack of reliable information on 'the brand to avoid'. 'Black nest felt' isn't enough to go on. Haven't yet seen anyone name brand X, and as Roland's Article confirms, it's only those manufactured in a certain way that pose a danger.

[glenrandal]

stopped using all nestfelts just use straw or natural products like twigs

[lanarkshire lad]

Good to see new information on this subject, which has hit the forum during the breeding season for at least the last 3/4 years.

 

I have always used nest felts, moving on from the original 'horse hair' ones (because I felt their unravelling was a trapping danger to youngsters) to the black 'latex-bonded' washable ones which have figured in this scare. I never experienced any bother with them, probably because I always dust them with stalosan before use, and at the end of each year washed them in hot soapy water and bleach. They take a lot of rinsing and drying, and I put them out on the rope, and / or dry them off in the gas boiler cupboard, but I think that's what keeps mine safe for reuse.

 

But that still doesn't make me want to buy replacements. I'm still very wary of buying in new, and that's because of a lack of reliable information on 'the brand to avoid'. 'Black nest felt' isn't enough to go on. Haven't yet seen anyone name brand X, and as Roland's Article confirms, it's only those manufactured in a certain way that pose a danger.

Where did you get the latex - bonded ones the washable ones?

[Guest IB]

Where did you get the latex - bonded ones the washable ones?

 

Boddy & Ridewood, maybes 6/7 years ago, packs of 10, made by Thibo (spelling)?

[JohnQuinn]

stoped using nestfelts 3 yrs ago when told wae rod adams to use newspaper works for us

 

Ma lot get Tobacco stalks and the pickings off the Conifers that are in the garden, don't think i get any more/less nest fatalities than anyone else. Its natural to lose some, its gotta be.

[ovy1255]

i have used nest liners for 3 years and always use the type made from coconut husks -i never reuse but dispose of them after one nest, better than cleaning out nest bowls in the usual way.

when i use these linners the birds are given access to treated straw from the pet shop and they build on top of the linner,one thing i have noticed is that when i use this method and you lift the nest bowl up there is no moisture under the bowls, so the linners let the nest breath.

the way i look at it is to pay a little you may give the youngsters a healthy start in life which is worth a lot to me ,but if you want it cheap and it suits you and your happy well thats ok.

all my birds are treat with one spot while the majority are sitting eggs and are also sprayed [belt and braces]

never used tobacco stalks but have been recomended them by a few fanciers but never tried them.

[steve d]

I must be one of the old fashioned fanciers I use Straw.

[Roland]

Straw is good... but one must be mindful of any 'Tubing' as nasties can, and do, make a home in them.

[kirky]

I must be one of the old fashioned fanciers I use Straw.

well so am i have always used straw.