Stiff Wings

[Diamond dave]

Can anybody identify a problem that I am having with a 3 yo widowhood cock. He is my distance candidate for the NFC Tarbes and I am worried that he is not going to make the starting line.

The problem is that after a stiff 220miler in an East wind accross the water he seems to have "stiffened" up. He is not at all keen to go out and setles on the house roof when all the others are flying. When he does fly he flies very stiffly like a very tired stray.

Now heres the twist, his droppings are absolutely perfect, he still wants to fight everything in the loft and has a clear and sharp eye.

There are no outward signs of injury.

I have been setting this bird up for this race since he did well over the water as a yearling and I will be gutted if he dosn't

make it so any help will be very much appreciated.

 

D.D.

[Guest bigda]

fill a pail with very warm water. as hot as yer hands can stand ,and dunck him 3-4 times and masasage his wings and butts , get some calcium powder on his corn for a day with wheat germ oil, and a drop of brewers yeast after the hot bath he should be out like a cheap bulb asleep. you will need a week to 10 days to work on him

 

 

[lanarkshire lad]

Sounds as if the pigeons muscle bound, needs light exercise and light feeding to get the muscles back to working order.

[dal2]

Sounds like the birds puggled and needs a rest

[Diamond dave]

Thank you guys - Bigda should I do that every day for 10 days and which parts should be massaged.

Dal2 - I dont think he needs a rest, that race was only his third race this year so I don't think he is "puggled".

 

D.D.

[Guest bigda]

Thank you guys - Bigda should I do that every day for 10 days and which parts should be massaged.

Dal2 - I dont think he needs a rest, that race was only his third race this year so I don't think he is "puggled".

 

D.D.

very hot water 2 days only lock him in a box way big pile of straw plenty straw so he dont move rest up next day

he should be wing flapping before feed

[JohnQuinn]

Sounds to me that you over estimated the bird to start with. If a stiff 220mls, east wind or not, puts him in that state i'll bet you London to an Orange he goes down from across the channel!

[Guest bigda]

Sounds to me that you over estimated the bird to start with. If a stiff 220mls, east wind or not, puts him in that state i'll bet you London to an Orange he goes down from across the channel!

 

 

could be other problems pending, but have to try and get the sting drew out of him way a very hot bath

[Tony C]

DD in your position I'd do one of two things, one is to get the pigeon tested for Paratyphoid the other is to dispose of it now. Bit OTT you might think but I've seen the devastation Paratyphoid can do to a team. One of the tell tale signs of Para is pigeons flying odd, unbalanced, not being able to extend one wing fully in flight.

This is only a possibility but one well worth investigating. I hope the other replies you've had are right and I'm wrong.

[Guest GRIZZLE GRAHAM]

DD in your position I'd do one of two things, one is to get the pigeon tested for Paratyphoid the other is to dispose of it now. Bit OTT you might think but I've seen the devastation Paratyphoid can do to a team. One of the tell tale signs of Para is pigeons flying odd, unbalanced, not being able to extend one wing fully in flight.

This is only a possibility but one well worth investigating. I hope the other replies you've had are right and I'm wrong.

 

 

i totally agree with everything you are saying mate,paratyphoid is in most lofts, and you do not see any symptoms,but birds with flying difficulties, can`t get back to their nest boxes because they are in a top box e.g. most people think they have just bumped their wing,but the true cause is almost certainly paratyphoid.

[Guest stb-]

DD in your position I'd do one of two things, one is to get the pigeon tested for Paratyphoid the other is to dispose of it now. Bit OTT you might think but I've seen the devastation Paratyphoid can do to a team. One of the tell tale signs of Para is pigeons flying odd, unbalanced, not being able to extend one wing fully in flight.

This is only a possibility but one well worth investigating. I hope the other replies you've had are right and I'm wrong.

AFRAID I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU THERE TONY SOUNDS VERY LIKELY

[Guest IB]

I think you have two seperate issues to consider here.

 

The first and most important is fairly straight forward, and that is any pigeon entered in a classic race needs to be just right, 110% fitness, etc. Your bird clearly isn't fit, so look for another candidate - now.

 

The second issue is 'what is wrong with the bird?'. I have little or no experience with illness, but I have had more than my share of injuries, and those I do know about. I've 2 wing injuries this year, and 1 last year, which will be of interest. The one last year was a definite collision with a bus shelter, my wife saw it, and the bird has been left with noticeable 'limited' wing movement when flying. If you watch your birds flying its obvious the wing tips touch above and below the bird. This bird is what I term 'wooden in flight' in that the wings don't move much above or below the horizontal, in normal flight the tips certainly don't touch, or anywhere near it.

 

Didn't know what the bird's problem might be till first injury this year which was a vet job as the wing appeared almost torn off, and that's well beyond my expertise. Again bird collided with something, it didn't break anything, but had a deep gash on top of and just behind the leading edge of the wing which needed stitched. Again, don't try that yourself because there's something that acts like an elastic band that runs along the leading edge of each wing between shoulder and 'ba()stard wing' which if damaged affects the whole aerodynamics of the wing, leaving one wing beating faster than the other. And the less the bird flies, the more that ligament tightens, and when a bird carrying this injury has flown it leaves the bird looking right stiff & sore.

[swilcox]

Last year i had a very similar problem after race 5, one cock bird, then 2 years old had a stiff wing and went a little lob sided, at first i believed it was an injury and rested him, at race 6 4 cocks showed the same symptoms approx 48 hours after coming home, perfect droppings, looked and handle well but didnt fly out when i opened the doors and on inspection found they couldnt fly very well!!!

 

At that point the first cock was sent to a vet where he was tested for Parathyoid/salmenella, cocci, worms canker etc and he and other samples came back negative. Slowly however the other 4 recovered so i then sent all that section to 350 miles and bang, they came home (90%) on the day but they were not at all happy and within days more couldnt fly!!!! Some of the birds recovered and some were disposed of!! Now the birds that recovered have gone down this year so they probaly didnt recover at all, just signs went away. To add last years ybs were pretty special and i had 100% hatch this year too, and others this year have raced ok in the few races i have sent to.

 

Now i have done a bit of research on this and it turns out that loads of people have had the same problem but keep stum about!!!!!

 

So i have come up with 2 or 3 explanations.

 

1) I have alot of Hawk problems, very often my pigeons fly off at 200 miles an hour when the sparrowhawk is around or flea out of the sky when percy are here, are they causing perminent damage to the tendons when they do this which comes out under extreme physical stress.

 

2) Streptococcus, this bacteria desease will cause tendon and joint swelling, all pigeons have some strepy bacteria but when it goes into the lining of the stomach and then the blood stream it can cause sudden death or paralysis and is often visable with slimy droppings. (i havnt had any of these problems)

 

3) Clamidia, a route cause of ornithosis, its said that all pigeons have some amount of clymdia virus in them but high levels for long periods can lead to joint and tendon paralysis and airsack damage ( often you experience high losses of what looks like healthy pigeons). The problem with Clamidia is that its very hard to test for and treat, its common in america where they recommend treatment for 40 plus days.

 

Thats were i am with my observations, i intend to fly my pigeons very hard so that altimatly the basket will decide the fitest pigeons and touch wood the only pigeons that have shown any weekness are those who were exposed to these probaly before, the yearling have showed no signs.

[Guest JPH]

a bird that cant fly two hundred odd miles without sizeing up is no good so remove ?? birds that fly pau i would exspect some of them to be stiff for a few days then recover musle fatigue is common in birds ??/stiffness lack off intrest in flying is more than fatigue ??calcium defesancey is a cause off loss of flight or wing droop as i call it ?????if you have a few other birds that show this they are weak so get rid thats my advice they will produce the like ???clamidea in pigeons would not take forty days traetment ??three treatments with thrush cream would remove this from the body

[Diamond dave]

Oh dear you guys - I am gutted by your replies. This pigeon was 2nd yearling section in the MNFC from over the water - last year as a 2 yo he was just outside the first 100 open in the MNFC Bergerac. I only have 8 race birds and only 2 of them will do the distance.I have put so much emphasis on this bird that to cull it would be heartbreaking in fact if I can't get him to Tarbes this year, I feel as though I would have wasted the last 3 years!!! This is the only pigeon I have had that has shown any signs of any potential at the distance. He was going to Tarbes this year then Barcelona next year.

 

GUTTED DD

[Guest stb-]

M8 I WOULD SEPERATE HIM FROM THE REST AND GET HIM TESTED TO PUT YOUR MIND AT REST , BUT PERSONNALY DONT THINK A DOO SHOULD BE LIKE THAT FROM 200 ODD MILES , MUST BE SOMMIT UNDERLAYING

[Diamond dave]

Last year i had a very similar problem after race 5, one cock bird, then 2 years old had a stiff wing and went a little lob sided, at first i believed it was an injury and rested him, at race 6 4 cocks showed the same symptoms approx 48 hours after coming home, perfect droppings, looked and handle well but didnt fly out when i opened the doors and on inspection found they couldnt fly very well!!!

 

At that point the first cock was sent to a vet where he was tested for Parathyoid/salmenella, cocci, worms canker etc and he and other samples came back negative. Slowly however the other 4 recovered so i then sent all that section to 350 miles and bang, they came home (90%) on the day but they were not at all happy and within days more couldnt fly!!!! Some of the birds recovered and some were disposed of!! Now the birds that recovered have gone down this year so they probaly didnt recover at all, just signs went away. To add last years ybs were pretty special and i had 100% hatch this year too, and others this year have raced ok in the few races i have sent to.

 

Now i have done a bit of research on this and it turns out that loads of people have had the same problem but keep stum about!!!!!

 

So i have come up with 2 or 3 explanations.

 

1) I have alot of Hawk problems, very often my pigeons fly off at 200 miles an hour when the sparrowhawk is around or flea out of the sky when percy are here, are they causing perminent damage to the tendons when they do this which comes out under extreme physical stress.

 

2) Streptococcus, this bacteria desease will cause tendon and joint swelling, all pigeons have some strepy bacteria but when it goes into the lining of the stomach and then the blood stream it can cause sudden death or paralysis and is often visable with slimy droppings. (i havnt had any of these problems)

 

3) Clamidia, a route cause of ornithosis, its said that all pigeons have some amount of clymdia virus in them but high levels for long periods can lead to joint and tendon paralysis and airsack damage ( often you experience high losses of what looks like healthy pigeons). The problem with Clamidia is that its very hard to test for and treat, its common in america where they recommend treatment for 40 plus days.

 

Thats were i am with my observations, i intend to fly my pigeons very hard so that altimatly the basket will decide the fitest pigeons and touch wood the only pigeons that have shown any weekness are those who were exposed to these probaly before, the yearling have showed no signs.

 

Stuart, Thanks for your input mate - when you say that lots of other people have this problem, do you know anyone whose birds have got over it.

I have seperated him now and will try BigDas ideas of rest and hot baths for a while before doing anything drastic.

One thing that is interesting is that mant of the other posts refer to Paratyphoid but you didn't mention that in your obsrvations - have you illiminated that......?

- Glad of any help mate -positive or negative.

[Guest JPH]

Oh dear you guys - I am gutted by your replies. This pigeon was 2nd yearling section in the MNFC from over the water - last year as a 2 yo he was just outside the first 100 open in the MNFC Bergerac. I only have 8 race birds and only 2 of them will do the distance.I have put so much emphasis on this bird that to cull it would be heartbreaking in fact if I can't get him to Tarbes this year, I feel as though I would have wasted the last 3 years!!! This is the only pigeon I have had that has shown any signs of any potential at the distance. He was going to Tarbes this year then Barcelona next year.

 

GUTTED DD

okay whats its breeding ????but regardless of this? you state its stiff paratyphoid affects the joints ??have you bought any foraign rubbish in as most of the lofts sufferred with it last few years resulting in bad birds sold over here as they could not be sold there ????

[swilcox]

I had my pigeons tested and they didnt have paratyphus!!!

[Diamond dave]

JPH. The bird is Van Hee but I dont see why that should be important. I have seperated him now and I think I have accepted the fact that he wont be going this anywhere this year. Before I do anything drastic, I am going to give him 3 or 4 weeks to see how things develop. I think I will give him his hen and let him go out with her to see if his flying improves.

One thing I would like to know now is what are the danger signs to look out for, for the next stage of paratyphoid so that I can be sure I am doing the right thing.

One other question I would ask from anyone that knows is whether it is possible for birds to be too inbred that they suffer from arthiritis or something like that.

Thank you all for your help.

 

DD

[Guest JPH]

JPH. The bird is Van Hee but I dont see why that should be important. I have seperated him now and I think I have accepted the fact that he wont be going this anywhere this year. Before I do anything drastic, I am going to give him 3 or 4 weeks to see how things develop. I think I will give him his hen and let him go out with her to see if his flying improves.

One thing I would like to know now is what are the danger signs to look out for, for the next stage of paratyphoid so that I can be sure I am doing the right thing.

One other question I would ask from anyone that knows is whether it is possible for birds to be too inbred that they suffer from arthiritis or something like that.

Thank you all for your help.

 

DD

birds are bred for the job they do thats why the question on breeding my mate had altermans and soojons and moaned they would not fly pau look out for dull plumage lack of appitite drinking lots water going light and sometimes a viniger smell from box or bird just drops dead

[Guest JPH]

Paratyphoid: Salmonella causes the disease paratyphoid in pigeons. It is a bacterial infection that causes a multitude of possible symptoms including sudden death of apparently healthy birds of any age, joint infections causing a dropped wing or lameness, infertility in cocks and hens, diarrhea, weight loss, etc, etc. This is a treatable disease and is best treated with Batril (250 mg/gallon) or Cipro (750 mg/gallon) for 10 14 days. Baytril (and I assume Cipro) has been shown to get rid of the carrier state of salmonella so you no longer must destroy infected birds. Remember these drugs should not be used while breeding and raising babies. Vaccination is available and is a good idea, especially if you have had a problem with the disease before. The vaccine contains an immune stimulant and seems to really give birds a boost of great health when used about 3 - 4 weeks before the race season. This disease is carried by rodents so you must keep them out of your loft to prevent possible infection in your birds.

 

E. coli: This is a related bacteria to Salmonella and PRODUCES THE EXACT SAME SYMPTOMS. It is much more common than salmonella and probably a lot of what people are diagnosing as salmonella based on symptoms alone is actually E. coli infection. You treat E. coli with antibiotics but you should have a culture and sensitivity run before you treat as this bug varies a lot in what drug kills it best. I have made vaccines for some lofts with chronic problems and helped them, but this is not usually needed. E. coli is a big secondary invader and birds that are stressed with worms, coccidia, canker, and other problems tend to be much more susceptible to it. If you have had E. coli problems in the past it is critical that you control all other disease problems to keep it from recurring.

[Diamond dave]

Wow - thanks for that JPH. I did have mice around the loft in the winter but soon got rid of them and thought no more of it.

I don't want to use antibiotics but will make an exception for this one pigeon, however, I want to be sure that it is Paratyphoid before giveing it. I will have his droppings tested to find out for sure.

Whatever happens he has now missed part of the build up to the big one so if necesary I will treat him and put him away for next

year.

Now, I have one more question - is there an alternative to anti biotics for paratyphoid.

 

DD

[Guest JPH]

Wow - thanks for that JPH. I did have mice around the loft in the winter but soon got rid of them and thought no more of it.

I don't want to use antibiotics but will make an exception for this one pigeon, however, I want to be sure that it is Paratyphoid before giveing it. I will have his droppings tested to find out for sure.

Whatever happens he has now missed part of the build up to the big one so if necesary I will treat him and put him away for next

year.

Now, I have one more question - is there an alternative to anti biotics for paratyphoid.

 

DD

as far as im aware no ??but could be wrong ??however what you need to understand is birds may recover after treatment but possable become carriers some birds wont show illness but their young will be rubbish weak sickly things befor they are 8days old?????