Real cost of Distance Racing

[johno]

this weekend has seen a poor return from 500 mile plus races into scotland. what is the full cost of this disapointment? some lofts have had returns and may be happy with them this is fair enoiugh. the pigeons which hve returned are great performers and nothing can or should be taken away from the performance. for the majority though returns are poor and disaappointment high. the full cost of races such as these can be broken down in the following fashion. 1.good pigeons gone forever lost never to return. 2.the opportunity of breeding from these pigeons is also lost. 3.time and effort put in by the fancier bearing no return either financial or maintaining stock lines. 4. future years and performance will suffer as a result of the continual loss of proven stock. on a purely financial side the cost is also high. in these days of high fuel costs the management of resources is crucial to survival. races like this weekend have a heavy bearing on any organisation participating. the cost of racing from tours would be the cost of bringing the pigeons in on marking night. fuel and wages. fuel = around 500 miles . 12 mpg app. 45 gallons @ £6 = £270. wages including marking station hire, tea, food for workers etc, £500. total £770. miles to ferry app. 500. miles from drop off to tours app. 300. total round trip 1600 miles. = 135 gallon at 12mpg. = £810. ferry cost app. £300 return. total so far £1880. wages and subsistance driver and convoyer wednesday to sunday. 5 days each = 10 man days @ £250 per day £2500. total so far £4380. when you add prize money admin costs and any other additional costs it is easy to see this figure around £6000. income is limited to birdage. around 300 @ £5. =£1500. leaving £4500 to be found. this equates to £15 per entry on top of the £5 being charged. So the full cost of weekends such as the last is much more than the obvious. the follow on also means a loss of brdage in future years through more than average losses. this is not an attack on any one or any organisation. this is the real cost of distance racing.

[Guest shadow]

the real personal loss is the destruction of your channel team which takes years to rebuild

[Roland]

Yes Whilst I agree with quite a lot of the above, one should I feel, compare with other hobbies / pastimes etc. Fella next door goes fishing, just on Sunday's now... spends nearly £100 (sometimes more)for feed / ground baits, other baits etc. and the cost, like ours of course is soaring.  Then of course they are forever saving and buying to try and improve. Some go 2/3 times a week! Now like us at the grass roots that is a no go. Like ours also the plebes are playing second fiddle to the 'Haves'. But unlike us they are not, I repeat not, putting their money into the more and better positioned coffers. Further, and unlike us, have a chance of a big catch every time the right 'Peg' number is drawn out.

Yes photography was way beyond the plebes reach - indeed the Camera Club use to do car boot and Market sales to off shoot costs. I don't know, but feel that with Mod technology cost may well have come down...

Just what does it cost to take your two sons to a game... without the 'Bribe' for the missis to go shopping!?

Air sports are colossal!

Even 'Banger' racing, let alone Scrambling etc. need sponsors to have a chance to be successful.

Then we come to the cost of the loss of our 'Distance' birds!

I lost 10 of my race team. 5 2yo's left that were with their’ youngsters, and 6 yearlings left!

Am I sad, of course I am peeved. Do I regret sending... No! because I I know I would / will do exactly the same 2 years or so down the road, and that is part and partial of the game.

These were new blood I was trying, and am nigh wiped out in one race! Many will no doubt work their way back. A. they aren't incest bred so that augers well. They were lightly tossed till 2, and then coming well from the three tosses this season. I put them in a couple of races as 'Trainers' at 100 and 200 miles respectively. I don't bother to time in from that distance, better off in bed having a lie in if finished work late..

They would unhesitatingly have made in any normal conditions. Many good birds as you say haven't!

But I, like them have, a few left to breed from. Indeed I have at the moment 6 pairs of stock... first lot ever.

The losses with mean a few Late - breds, lightly toss this season. A couple of 100 - 150 milers next race season. Then in two years time I will have a good team again. Will be a better flyer next year, more careful to choose their’ races to fly in due to numbers, and not conditions.

Have away a Hen that has won the Scottish averages on her own three times, Flew Thurso AND WON WHEN 7 months old and won the Averages that year beating loft mates.

Yes peeved sure, but she'll be back, put to stock, likewise the Pau Cock bird... Others will have  open loft as long as possible till next season. (Well they all will have that).

Yes this is really what the Distance is all about... other wise I'd fly a Kite and save a lot of money with a few fancy strains to look at!

Sure as hell won't be putting my hard earnt money into the coffers of the more and better positioned. JMO

[johno]

i am not having a go at any one or organisation, as i stated in the original post. all i am doing is highlighting the complexity of the situation and way different aspects are so closely linked. pigeons have always gone missing at distance races.

[frank-123]

no doubt wnen a good bird gets lost or killed it must be a bitter blow

but we all know when you put that bird in the basket its up to the gods whether that bird makes it home maybe one race to many

the cost should only be what you can afford if we looked on pigeons on what they cost then no one would keep them as you cant make a lot of money from them unless you sell a lot on your name or flying record

 

nothing must beat timing in from the distance i will let you know when it happens to me as i will keep trying to build a family good enough

for the love of the sport and the prestige thats why distance men race in these tough races

 

my father used to say he would take a timer in the national gold cup to ten first club positions

 

again i am sorry if you lost good birds but you put them in the basket

 

[pjc]

Every so often everybody gets a race like this, its "pigeon racing"!

Many old timers would look at it as survival of the fittest which will benefit your loft in the future, some will blame others for lack of returns.

 

How many fanciers sending birds 500m plus just send them hopeing for them to return and not full of confidence that the birds will return?

How many send birds as a last chance?

 

food for thought!

 

Phil

[Roland]

True Phil... the other catoragry is ' ...No good at the short - middle, they have to prove themselves at the distance... sometimes this pays off... other times Mr Basket does his Job.

But any and every GREAT strain needs the 'Distance birds to set them up I believe.

[Guest]

A very interesting thread, with some very interesting comments made! Losses are unavoidable when it comes to distance racing, its an accepted part of it. Granted, not all losses are down to poor quality birds or management, (bad races are frequent in this day and age of global warming changing the weather like it is almost flicking a light switch on and off) but i do feel that the majority are actually down to this, more so the poorer quality birds, ie; the ones that simply aren't up to the task in hand. It is one of the worst parts of our sport when you lose a good un', particularly if it was an old favourite, or a top performer for you. But, like I said, its par for the course - unavoidable. Two statements made to me when i was first starting in the sport many years ago ring in my mind at every channel / classic race i enter now.

The first, made by an UNC winning world re-knowned fancier - If you can't afford to lose it, then do not send it!

The second, by the late great Ayton Marshall, "If you don't send your best, You'll never beat me!" .......... and how right they were!

 

I'm a relatively new contestant into the world of channel / distance racing, but have found the buzz when you get one from a long hard race, far better, far far greater than anything I ever got when I acheived success at the shorter races.

Its a hard game no doubts about that! Stick with it Johno!

[johno]

lost birds will have their perches taken by other birds. the post refers also to the financial cost to organisations rather than individuals. less birds entered means unit price raises. unit prices raises numbers entered drop. a vicious circle. sound management of resources is becoming more and more an integral part of organisations surviving. when annual accounts appear for this year i am sure these will reflect major unforeseen or predicted costs which will cause much concern and head scratching.

[Michael J Burden]

Well I was told many times, and ignored it at my peril. To pick your team for the distance race, then only send half. This is good practice because when they are in the crates what happens to them is out of your control and disaster can strike. In 20 years of racing though this disaster has only happened 3 times, Pau NFC 1992. Centenary 1997 and the latest for me Falaise 2 BICC. The latter saw me send my whole team of 30 birds which on the build up was hot and sunny ect. On the day it was nigh on gale force north east cold wettish day. It stopped me in my tracks. Got to know which are super birds and lost some and spolit some good birds too.

With all the internet weather etc available today it appears in 20 years only 3 disasters is not that bad unless you have sent your whole team to one of them.

[billy wilson]

how many good birds are there in each individual loft not a lot i can assure you,there are a certain ammount of birds that keep the home fires burning

[Guest bigda]

how many good birds are there in each individual loft not a lot i can assure you,there are a certain ammount of birds that keep the home fires burning

 

your right  bill they are called the flying bank books but they are now getting as rare as hens teeth. :'(

[Guest slugmonkey]

you may not have many left but they are the good ones !!!

I will say it again you cant out think the basket

 

P.S. look at the guy who got most of his home and ask

1. what is he doing diffrent

2. Where did he get his birds

[Novice]

you may not have many left but they are the good ones !!!

I will say it again you cant out think the basket

 

P.S. look at the guy who got most of his home and ask

1. what is he doing diffrent

2. Where did he get his birds

 

 

I don't think that anyone whose birds were liberated on Saturday had most of them home.

This weekend was a disaster for all.

Occasional birds shone but at least 90% failed. These were not bad birds handled by poor fanciers. These were the cream.

 

 

[chrissyboy]

Sholud they charge more per bird for these races and less for the Inland races(these appear to be the races that make a profit) .The little numbers that attend these extreme distance races probable would pay more to have this race?

[Roland]

how many good birds are there in each individual loft not a lot i can assure you,there are a certain ammount of birds that keep the home fires burning

100% correct....

 

Chrissyboy say...'Sholud they charge more per bird for these races and less for the Inland races(these appear to be the races that make a profit) .The little numbers that attend these extreme distance races probable would pay more to have this race?

THEY more than pay the extra. Where you been?! 30p inland £3 Thurso and more for Lerwick.

Then the other bloody cheek. We pay £121 all in... and a extra couple of quid just for the Distance races! I shalln't next season and that's a fact... 23 in club say... 8 of us refuse to pay and send with another club in same Fed, same Lib point.

Now the other 15 or so will have to make up the £1000 odd quiddies themselves. They send 20 or as many as they like to the inland races for no cost after paid dues! We send the odd races to prepare and get milage under the birds wings...

This year I have only sent 4 birds in the club and thay cost me £3 or more each!

Likewise a few others.

Now in the other club I also paid full membership fee. I have sent 10  and 12, 22 x 30p! I can live with that, and oh yes the £3 or so for the Thurso race. Glad you brought it up Chrissyboy. I am through sponsoring the sprints etc. Thanks.

 

[Lennut Tar]

lost birds will have their perches taken by other birds. the post refers also to the financial cost to organisations rather than individuals. less birds entered means unit price raises. unit prices raises numbers entered drop. a vicious circle. sound management of resources is becoming more and more an integral part of organisations surviving. when annual accounts appear for this year i am sure these will reflect major unforeseen or predicted costs which will cause much concern and head scratching.

 

Interesting topic & comments etc Johno & much of what you say is more than likely true I have no doubt, & when you add up all the costs involved in distance racing, to get the birds there for a release. Unfortunately !!!!!! many would say it is not worth the cost or the effort etc, for the end result sadly. To me thou, it's a cost I'm willing to bare within reason   :P to at times have that enjoyment & pleasure of timing in when flying the distance races in my area. Now !!!!!!! I note your figures were worked out on 300 birds etc (Not many) & I also understand there is a difference in regards to how we all go about doing the figures in relation to the cost involved, & there are different options available depending on where one lives etc, to overcome this problem. As an example here, 3 out of the 4 federations in my local area, combine together to cut down the costs in relation to fuel & labour & all go on the one truck, & it is very successful (4000 -5000 birds) & in the end everyone is a winner in my view.

Now !!!!!! a bit of humour  ;D ;D ;D had a couple of young blokes   :) last friday night etc, 2 Scotsman's from around Edinburgh way I believe (Talk funny)  ;D ;D ;D, who were over here on holiday's & they called in at my club when we were doing the basketing etc for a bit of a talk & a look. Bloody cold place  ;D ;D ;D they said to me   ;) not like this back home & they also said you have a lot of birds here tonight 500 which I just smiled to myself & said not really  :'( :'(  compared to the good old days, long gone now thou, but they just couldn't get over our clubs rooms & property etc compared to what they had at home. Chalk & cheese type situation they said, & the funniest part was when we sent the birds away on the truck in the units etc, they just couldn't believe the difference compared to home, rough as guts type situation as far as they were concerned, but we all just smiled & said !!!!!!!, we breed them tough over here.

Enjoy.    

 

 

[johno]

the numbers, 300, i use are real numbers from a real situation this season. this is part of the discussion.

[pjc]

Channel racing is far to cheap, if it was £10 or £20 per bird only quality would be sent by people with a genuine interest in distance racing.

 

Phil

[JOHNNY WISHBONE]

100% correct....

 

Chrissyboy say...'Sholud they charge more per bird for these races and less for the Inland races(these appear to be the races that make a profit) .The little numbers that attend these extreme distance races probable would pay more to have this race?

THEY more than pay the extra. Where you been?! 30p inland £3 Thurso and more for Lerwick.

Then the other bloody cheek. We pay £121 all in... and a extra couple of quid just for the Distance races! I shalln't next season and that's a fact... 23 in club say... 8 of us refuse to pay and send with another club in same Fed, same Lib point.

Now the other 15 or so will have to make up the £1000 odd quiddies themselves. They send 20 or as many as they like to the inland races for no cost after paid dues! We send the odd races to prepare and get milage under the birds wings...

This year I have only sent 4 birds in the club and thay cost me £3 or more each!

Likewise a few others.

Now in the other club I also paid full membership fee. I have sent 10  and 12, 22 x 30p! I can live with that, and oh yes the £3 or so for the Thurso race. Glad you brought it up Chrissyboy. I am through sponsoring the sprints etc. Thanks.

Take your point but clubs do rely on their members competing every week, as do federations, you'd be better sending trainers and only join your distance club.

 

[Roland]

Trainers have to be rubbered, and cost the same. Point making is that the so - called distance flyer not only pays the same as any one else. The pay the normal fee, then Extra for the priveledge of sending to the distances, whereas the norm may well only send to English races, perhaps Frazerbough! So we already pay over the odds for our puesuit of our sport.

[Roland]

I.e. the £121 for any and every race EXCEPT the distance races, regardless how few they send, or at all. Never had a prob with that, as I want and would wish to pay my fair share... but then to have it suggested we pay even more for a far less than the norm is , well a blumming cheek!

Tis why many clubs folded when the so called 'Sprint and midweek races took hold, purely for the more able to wi a 'Bit' and what not! Time was, like I say, when 12 pairs was a big team. And let's not forget losses were far fewer each and every year because 90% of ALL lofts when the distance, indeed every race, and the quality of the birds were then as such that some 'poor' birds were weeded out and obviously then NOT bred from.

Mark my words, most, if not all good strains were / are - regardless whether later used for 'Sprint / Middle distance, founded on 'Distance stock.