list of dodgy pigeon sellers for novices

[the wee red hens]

is there any chance that members could list the dodgy pigeon sellers so that novices could perhaps avoid getting ripped off by these so called fanciers

[pjc]

You have been offered birds for free so why do you want to buy from sellers?

 

Phil

[the wee red hens]

just thinking about the future when we,re in a position to buy birds

[the wee red hens]

thank you for that advice rose

[VAGIN]

You cannot named (dodgy sellers ) in case you were sued / To me there are two kinds of sellers Genuine racing fanciers /or Pigeon Dealers /Aviod the dealer as he is only there to make a quick buck / I know its hard too seperate the two when your a novice. Dont be afraid to ask older fanciers in your club for advice as this is where you will pick up a lot of really good information how you use it is up to you This is where I picked up most of my knowledge many years ago and it still plays a big part in my set up today  Good luck

[PigeonTracker]

Good advice Rose, I was asking this question to several of the members here who were on the same run as what I felt was a 'dodgy' or certainly questionable seller, I would have loved to name and shamed but felt it would be going into murky waters.  Not liking an owner or his methods is one thing, a rogue seller another.   The one benefit of fanciers delivering to fanciers is we usually get to see the lofts, talk to the sellers and buyers and can pretty much get a full story of who's good and who's not.

 

The forum webmaster can be taken to task for libelous posts made by his members so there's quite a lot to look at before going down that road, the one thing we plan to do on our website is listing our own good and bad sellers based on customer feedback from our own database which is slighlty larger than this and we won't ever be listing something we can't support.   Perhaps then a link to the forum here via an RSS feed would help the members here without putting this forum into a platform for an all out slanging match between rival sellers, which can happen as we all know.

 

Any help needed let me know.

 

Jamie

[ChrisMaidment08]

 

Personally if i was going to be paying for birds and I didnt know anything about where they were coming from I would like to go and see what i was getting   You can get few surprises when you actually see some of the lofts  ;D

I agree you have to be very careful what is said perhaps advice or information on anyones personal experiences should be kept to pms you can ask for feedback on a certain person but should be kept between them after that its down to the person to make a decision whether to buy or not

that is correct but then i can take you to a loft that is old cheap but the birds are top notch mind you he has never sold a bird and he has nationals fed wins galor    lofts mean nothing apart from keeping naighbours happy   its the birdsssssssssssssss

 

 

[ChrisMaidment08]

gives a lot away mind and the gen roland jansons he has :K) :K) :K) :K) :K) :K)

[DOVEScot]

Good advice Rose, I was asking this question to several of the members here who were on the same run as what I felt was a 'dodgy' or certainly questionable seller, I would have loved to name and shamed but felt it would be going into murky waters.  Not liking an owner or his methods is one thing, a rogue seller another.   The one benefit of fanciers delivering to fanciers is we usually get to see the lofts, talk to the sellers and buyers and can pretty much get a full story of who's good and who's not.

 

The forum webmaster can be taken to task for libelous posts made by his members so there's quite a lot to look at before going down that road, the one thing we plan to do on our website is listing our own good and bad sellers based on customer feedback from our own database which is slighlty larger than this and we won't ever be listing something we can't support.   Perhaps then a link to the forum here via an RSS feed would help the members here without putting this forum into a platform for an all out slanging match between rival sellers, which can happen as we all know.

 

Any help needed let me know.

 

Jamie

 

I think if you start that then you will be committing business suicide, not that you would be doing anything wrong a lot of people would lose confidence in you and your service :-/

Bearing in mind 99% of pigeon fanciers do not know anything about you, I certainly would not want a courier being a possible loft monitor and if he did not like my set up then he could be judgemental and or vindictive

Before you possibly go off on one, I am not saying you are like that but there is a potential that this may happen JMO  :-/

[bobtail]

 

I think if you start that then you will be committing business suicide, not that you would be doing anything wrong a lot of people would lose confidence in you and your service :-/

Bearing in mind 99% of pigeon fanciers do not know anything about you, I certainly would not want a courier being a possible loft monitor and if he did not like my set up then he could be judgemental and or vindictive

Before you possibly go off on one, I am not saying you are like that but there is a potential that this may happen JMO  :-/

think you could be right  dovescot but all the buyer has to do is to send the birds back  and if the seller is 100% he will send back the cash

 

 

[PigeonTracker]

 

Personally if i was going to be paying for birds and I didnt know anything about where they were coming from I would like to go and see what i was getting   You can get few surprises when you actually see some of the lofts  ;D

Exactly right Rose, but many haven't got that ability, and a good courier, especially run by fanciers would be the next best thing if you couldn't get to see the buyers.  I'll agree to disagree with Chris on the upkeep of lofts, I'll go for  good one any day of the week.  Run down doesn't mean anything, filthy unmaintained ones does, and thats the point I was making.  

 

In answer to other posters who claim naming and shaming would be business suicide, good buyers and sellers wouldn't be concerned about anything, the only ones who'd have problems are rogue traders, the ones who shouldn't be in the sport anyway.   Nobody said for a second that couriers should be monitors, but the fact they have their finger on the pulse can only be a good thing and it would only go to help people make a more informed opinion on whether to buy or not.  

 

[ChrisMaidment08]

oh well thats nice i must say   you may not remmber lauri huges shed was a s tip not cleaned he won almost all there ever was to win

[PigeonTracker]

Chris, Im not sure if your trying to pick a fight here?  I've already said that we can agree to disagree on the upkeep of a loft, you have your opinion and others will have theirs, its what makes the world go around.   I've know some winners come from less than clean lofts but its less than the winners I've seen from well maintained ones.

[ChrisMaidment08]

no it was joki but forgot to put smilys on i agree clean lofts are better for eye but my birds were on deep litter cleaned out everyother  won loads shows stright from shed thats the point you could think oh they wont be any good but my birds proved otherwise se my point

[mac1]

is there any chance that members could list the dodgy pigeon sellers so that novices could perhaps avoid getting ripped off by these so called fanciers

 

not forgetting the dodgy buyers

[ChrisMaidment08]

the last time roger was here i went to shed for bird roger had a struggle to deliver it he said buetiful he goes to hundreds lofts

[DOVEScot]

Exactly right Rose, but many haven't got that ability, and a good courier, especially run by fanciers would be the next best thing if you couldn't get to see the buyers.  I'll agree to disagree with Chris on the upkeep of lofts, I'll go for  good one any day of the week.  Run down doesn't mean anything, filthy unmaintained ones does, and thats the point I was making.  

 

In answer to other posters who claim naming and shaming would be business suicide, good buyers and sellers wouldn't be concerned about anything, the only ones who'd have problems are rogue traders, the ones who shouldn't be in the sport anyway.   Nobody said for a second that couriers should be monitors, but the fact they have their finger on the pulse can only be a good thing and it would only go to help people make a more informed opinion on whether to buy or not.  

 

Coxy had an immaculate loft because he never had any birds in it :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

 

The range of lofts and sellers are so vast that who are we to judge, some think the likes of Louella are the biggest scam merchants and also some think the ones that give away birds free are idiots and their birds must be crap if they are just giving them away.

Although help and feedback from couriers would benefit us in tracking dodgy sellers that have been ousted, I have seen members crucified on this site rightly or wrongly for selling or giving away pigeons just due to differences in opinions :-/

[Roland]

Have to agree with Duncan's above post. Louella has undoubtedly stood the test of time, and there ARE many very sucessful lofts set up with their birds. Even International, besides National winners.

Other than that, the best policy is have a repore with the seller... if you hit it off, and feel you can trust and get along etc. go for it.

latebreds of course are the best to have, if one is willing to bred first year and race youngsters, and then the parents year after. These are normally of the Race team and have at least proven to have been able to home.

Of course a few light tosses helps, and a couple of 100 milers or so races first year.

[Ian Gill]

Good advice Rose, I was asking this question to several of the members here who were on the same run as what I felt was a 'dodgy' or certainly questionable seller, I would have loved to name and shamed but felt it would be going into murky waters.  Not liking an owner or his methods is one thing, a rogue seller another.   The one benefit of fanciers delivering to fanciers is we usually get to see the lofts, talk to the sellers and buyers and can pretty much get a full story of who's good and who's not.

 

The forum webmaster can be taken to task for libelous posts made by his members so there's quite a lot to look at before going down that road, the one thing we plan to do on our website is listing our own good and bad sellers based on customer feedback from our own database which is slighlty larger than this and we won't ever be listing something we can't support.   Perhaps then a link to the forum here via an RSS feed would help the members here without putting this forum into a platform for an all out slanging match between rival sellers, which can happen as we all know.

 

Any help needed let me know.

 

Jamie

 

Self appointed "Pigeon Police" ..what will be next I wonder??

 

What would give you the right to do such a thing Jamie?? You are going to base part of this "database" on the sellers loft etc?? Does your theory hold up that only people with top of the range lofts keep good pigeons??

 

I have seen lofts that many would describe as atrocious and they contained some of the best pigeons I have ever seen and ive seen 30 grand Petron lofts full of rubbish ..Hardly a fair way to list someone on your "blacklist"

 

 

[john robo]

is there a need to list good or dodgy sellers, if the site is left as it is, just look up the usersname and make your own mind up, not that hard to find the genuine sellers & buyers.

[ChrisMaidment08]

is there a need to list good or dodgy sellers, if the site is left as it is, just look up the usersname and make your own mind up, not that hard to find the genuine sellers & buyers.

 

or givers  it makes me sick some peaple think just because you give them away they are rubbish ask the peaple who have had of me and done well with them if its no good to me its no good to you peaple sell rubbish this time of year as they never bred the goods  saying i bred six now selling need room 5 nat winners as young oh dear wonder if i can buy it back???? ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Guest chrisss]

is there a need to list good or dodgy sellers, if the site is left as it is, just look up the usersname and make your own mind up, not that hard to find the genuine sellers & buyers.

 

if he is on this site, the guy i was dealing with goes on at least 4 different sites [very rarely on this site]with different names [most of which will now change since he has been caught]i have never had any problems buying birds from guys on this site,but i still think a list of bad sellers [and buyers to be fair] should be held by a "grown up" on all of the sites,which you can check,also when caught they should be banned from any sites they go on[thats my personal spite bit thrown in for good measure ;D ;D ;D]having couriers checking your loft out is wrong they are paid to get birds from A to B not police the pigeon world

[ChrisMaidment08]

lawenko in cardiff is in homeing world again this week they should not put adds from these peaple eaither

[Roland]

 

Self appointed "Pigeon Police" ..what will be next I wonder??

 

What would give you the right to do such a thing Jamie?? You are going to base part of this "database" on the sellers loft etc?? Does your theory hold up that only people with top of the range lofts keep good pigeons??

 

I have seen lofts that many would describe as atrocious and they contained some of the best pigeons I have ever seen and ive seen 30 grand Petron lofts full of rubbish ..Hardly a fair way to list someone on your "blacklist"

 

 

Very true Ian, words of reality.

I have seen lofts set up also from WORLD renowned fancier, that every one in club / fed, etc. except a****ole lickers, warned about. Nary ever seen a one that was worth a feather, let alone a cuppa of tea.

Yet if I, like many others could, put HIS name up the place would errupt in scorn. Could without even thinking hard name and shame 6 or 7 off the top of my head! I often smile when I see people on site, this one included, heap praise upon them. Buying a 'Name' is worst even often than buying a bit of paper.

 

 

Quote:

It is reported that in the fall of 2007 Victor Vanlenzuela

turned down two six figure offers for Sure Bet;

the first $100,000 and a few weeks later

the second, $175,000.

. Could breed crap, I suppose, but more likely than not somewhere in the genes, with the right mating...

 

Easy to say though when established '"Your best racers are your first birds home !- Your best breeders are their parents !" No there qualifications are needed... But one has to start somewhere.

Just make sure the 'Name' isn't fobbing off proven culls to get some of his money back!

Too many do, and you can take that to the bank.

Some 'Name I see advertised well, Videos etc. and heaps of merits award, yes even on here, sells his old 'Family' that are now more than proven cra! Buys - or did do till my mate told him to sling his  hook - of another fellow and dominates. Doesn't ever of course give any credit (Well he can't can he!) and was buying in big every season. and selling crap even bigger! Nah, with some, if they tell you the grass is green, best you go out and check it!

P.s. 'Freebies and then swaps are often by far the best birds.

 

[just ask me]

there are a few hints i like to follow

 

to trust the man is the main thing

its all about info there is the mags Internet find out is he wining look at results and if others r winning too with his birds

u will find most top racers are decent pll if u can find a top man in a small backyard so he doesn't have room to just throw birds to one side to breed youngers to sell the better

 

when i restarted a few year ago i got birds from a real top winning strain in belgium  could only afford a few pairs they were real pricey so to top up with birds i got a few off Louella they arrived in perfect condition and not only that they beat the living daylights out the birds i paid ed a fortune for and u would believe what the strain was if i told u so what i done was did my homework for a year and bought birds that were winning in a few different locations and these are up and coming new strain best decision i ever made as regards bad sellers u can get most info on the net now forums like this and id stay away from the small wheeler dealers types u know the kind i call them dell boys[only fools and horses] another thing that u will find is that pll will put results down to different birds in there loft lets say a owner bought birds for there names i.e what on the peds and these are not the birds they are winning with but they put the results to the birds with the big names

 

so what i try to look for is small loft living in a bad location a man don't have to have loads of firsts to have top results look at location the most important thing and if he has a small loft he cant afford to keep what he thinks is a load of crap

id also in most cases buy late breeds or younger's as the person that selling them don't know how good or bad they are as breeders but if he only keeps very few birds he must think something of the parents

one more point in most cases when pll are constantly advertising there birds  this can be a bad sign too have seen it even on this site

 

i know  bit off the point in some cases but i feel its a valid post as soon we are coming into crazy pigeon buying time  so if a few newcomers read this i feel this will make them stop and think

i hope