Where can I buy some electrolyte

[yffyeah]

Hi folks,

I am a beginner. I am looking for electrolytes. Where can I buy it? Which brand is better? Any recommendation?

 

Cheers

[REDCHEQHEN]

You should be able to get electrolytes from your corn store

 

I personally like Beyers - very economical

[yffyeah]

thx

[OLDYELLOW]

http://www.everythingforpets.com/mister_pigeon_xpl_17_electrolytes.pet/use.id.5.item_id.649.dept.0/

[Fair Play]

MedVit - Sunderland

[Roland]

No need, why waste money. £Thousands spent a week... and why? The biggest laugh is ' Because the bird may be dehydroated... and in fact eloctros will cause, not  can, but will help to cause that.

A little glucose, Molasses, even suger etc. is far better and cost effective.

[PigeonTracker]

There are some schools of thoughts that think replacing electrolytes is actually a bad thing, take a look of this interesting article and make your own mind up.

 

http://www.racing-pigeons.org/electrolytes-good-or-bad

[Lennut Tar]

Hi folks,

I am a beginner. I am looking for electrolytes. Where can I buy it? Which brand is better? Any recommendation?

 

Cheers

 

Yffyeah, slow down a bit   ;) & don't be so keen to buy ???????? all the goodies  ;D ;D ;D that are on offer etc out there for your budding champions, of the future. Why do you think your birds need them etc, I just cannot understand it. Some here would know, I fly in a lot hotter climate than you ever will etc & I've never bought any electrolytes for my birds in my short ????????   ;) career.

PS, Rolands suggestion is ok thou   :) & a lot d*mm cheaper etc.

Enjoy.

 

 

 

[wilkins]

honey after a hard fly seems to work better on my birds

[Guest cloudview]

you can make your own , here,s the mix  4 pinches table salt , one to two handfulls of glucose , dextrose, or table sugar  2 pinches epsom salts , 2 pinches bicarbonate of soda

this makes up to 1 gallon of water

but latest information does sugest that they dont need this as birds dont sweat and can do more harm than good , iwould only use after severe  dose of diareer

[wilkins]

agree , i like the fact your mix includes bi carb

[OLDYELLOW]

it is a fact that pigeons dont sweat but there body stucture is made up from digesting cerials from starch into simple sugars and obvious they take on minerals and salt to maintain there fluid balance , after a hard flight after there food resources have been flown off they then start on stored fat , then there actualy body , after they have finished the body needs restoring , too much water can flood internal organs and actualy kill them because there mineral salt and blood sugars are low , the only effective way in my opinion to replensh this is to use electroytes to restore the sugar / salt balance , then the birds flesh can be put back on the body .

[Fair Play]

Oldyellow you have hit it right on the head excellent information without being dismissive all medication has it's uses if used correctly and for the purpose prescribed

[OLDYELLOW]

thanks Fair play i use Electrolytes will i stop using them ? no i would if i thought it was damaging them  

[Guest IB]

Sorry, but your understanding of what happens in-flight is way off-beam.

 

What the birds are burning off is water, not electrolytes. Birds retain electrolytes as part of their in-flight cooling system, they re-circulate it from the gut back into the blood, and the blood electrolyte concentration therefore doesn't decrease, it increases as the race progresses. And part of the reason pigeons do not poop while flying is that they can't spare the water for it.

 

So what they need when coming home is water, as much as they want, and within 30 minutes they will be fully rehydrated, and the blood consistency, which has got progressively thicker and harder for the heart to pump round the body, is returned to normal.

 

More electrolytes is exactly opposite of what the bird needs on return from the race.

[Roland]

Do I use Electrolytes No. Would I ever No. Would I if I thought that they could ever do even the slightest good, of course.

Honey yes another great thing anytime. After a hard race, when flown out, even after few days / week etc. away and just skin and bone would I use Electrolytes? Well then that would be most certainly not. It causes dehydration for starters and just why would I wish to inflict that on any bird, let a alone a flown out one, especially one if cherished.

Three peanuts say first off after fresh water with say a little honey.

Light feed with especially small seed, them REST is the best and most sensible cure. NOT too much protein then. A natural laxative like Linseed is good.

If a bird arrives as above, in a state as above or how Oldfellow says, then it has burn up it's natural make up as he says. THEN toxin is in the system. This is poisoning the system. and after the initial day too much protein poisons it a lot more. Rest and little movement, as movement spreads the toxins around. Bird tells you when lack - lustre and not wishing to move much. Yes maybe tire etc. but is more importantly not moving unless necessary to stop the toxin spreading.

[Roland]

Sorry posted same time as IB. Exactly right.

Another 'Myth against reality' really.

[OLDYELLOW]

Sorry, but your understanding of what happens in-flight is way off-beam.

 

What the birds are burning off is water, not electrolytes. Birds retain electrolytes as part of their in-flight cooling system, they re-circulate it from the gut back into the blood, and the blood electrolyte concentration therefore doesn't decrease, it increases as the race progresses. And part of the reason pigeons do not poop while flying is that they can't spare the water for it.

 

So what they need when coming home is water, as much as they want, and within 30 minutes they will be fully rehydrated, and the blood consistency, which has got progressively thicker and harder for the heart to pump round the body, is returned to normal.

 

More electrolytes is exactly opposite of what the bird needs on return from the race.

 

 

how can the electrolyte levels increase ? if you have half a pint of water with 2 spoonfullls of salt and sugar only the concentration of sugars and electroltyes increase when the water depleats, not all of these sugars and minerals stay in the system the urine cap on a pigeons deposit is rich in minerals therefore showing minerals salts and sugars are excreted by pigeons as most animals. Some points i agree some i disagree but equaly a good post as i would expect from you

[Guest IB]

 

 

how can the electrolyte levels increase ? if you have half a pint of water with 2 spoonfullls of salt and sugar only the concentration of sugars and electroltyes increase when the water depleats, not all of these sugars and minerals stay in the system the urine cap on a pigeons deposit is rich in minerals therefore showing minerals salts and sugars are excreted by pigeons as most animals. Some points i agree some i disagree but equaly a good post as i would expect from you

 

Sorry, perhaps a poor choice of wording on my part. Pigeon in flight do not excrete urates, it retains these. What it does lose in flight is water, so the end result is the concentration of electrolytes circulating in the blood increases (not the levels).

 

I've cobbled bits together from 3 articles which I hope show what is going on:-

 

From a Gordon Chalmers requirements in flight article:-

Flight in birds involves elaborate organisation and intricate co-ordination of several systems, including not only the working muscles themselves, but also the interactions of the heart, blood vessels, lungs, air sacs, nervous system, several important hormones, the metabolism of fuels and body temperature regulation. Their body processes normally function at a very high rate. They also have a normally high body temperature (107 - 108F) which is markedly increased during flight and therefore needs to be controlled and regulated. It is estimated that the amount of heat produced by the pigeon’s muscles during flight increases to over eight times more than the heat produced by a resting bird. In flight, most species of birds lose more water by evaporation from the body than they produce through metabolism. Add to this the possibility of excessively high environmental temperatures during the race and it becomes obvious that overheating of the racing bird can become a distinct reality. For these reasons it is highly critical that birds should possess built-in regulatory processes to control the body temperature and loss of water during sustained flight.

 

Among other complex relationships in the pigeon’s body, the uric acid that circulates in the blood stream prior to being eliminated through the kidneys, has a very important role to play in preventing or decreasing the effects of the excessive heat created by working muscle and high environmental temperatures. Heat generated during flight is removed via the air sacs and lungs through the nose and mouth, (called evaporated heat loss in Dutch Transporter Study) and from the naked areas of the legs. During flight, levels of uric acid in the blood stream increase significantly and are now believed to be one component of the complex of interconnected biochemical processes used by the pigeon to stop its body overheating during flight.

 

From an article on Avian Kidney function:-

Urine can be actively retropulsed from the cloaca and then to the rectum and back to the large intestine, where water can be reabsorbed and electrolytes can be modified. This affects the specific gravity, electrolyte concentrations, and bacterial ontamination of urine.

 

From Dutch transporter study:-

At high ambient temperature levels birds resort to mainly water evaporation for heat loss to maintain normal body temperature. Water deprivation prevents repletion of body water reserves. This results in an increase of 1.3% body weight loss per degree Celsius above 32.1C and reaches 16.2% body weight loss at 39C, over a 23 hour period. The physiological consequences of this weight loss (dehydration) are: a rise in body temperature; blood high viscosity (‘thickening’); ‘drying out’ of the breast muscles through water extraction; and death when the body weight loss threshold reaches 18%. The combined effects of the temperature level and the time birds are exposed to it determines the mortality rate. Heavier birds are affected more. Smaller birds appear better able to cope with hot environments where water is scarce.

 

During flight, decreased blood viscosity promotes blood flow thus reducing the load on the heart. Therefore dehydration will adversely affect flight performance, and the bird’s capacity to get home.

 

Also during flight, body temperature increases by between 1.5C and 3C, and water loss exceeds water production. Starting the flight with depleted water reserves will cause the pigeon’s body to overheat (hyperthermia). In horses, hyperthermia decreases the time to muscle fatigue.

 

At 37C, body temperature increased, and evaporated water loss decreased, possibly due to osmotic trigger to save body water levels. Dehydration results in increased serum electrolyte and protein concentrations, and osmotic stress reduces respiration frequencies.

 

Increase in Body heat and decrease in evaporated water loss developed from 6/8 hours after start of water deprivation, at 37C, birds had evaporated 3.9% of their body weight as water, total body water content assumed @ 65%.

 

Recovery from dehydration Within 30 minutes of taking water ( drank 7% of body weight = mean weight loss ) body temperature and body weight returned to normal. EWL recovery was slower.

 

 

 

 

[OLDYELLOW]

EWL recovery was slower ?  what does this mean

[Guest IB]

EWL recovery was slower ?  what does this mean

 

I did not take notes of the experiments in that chapter.

 

The text states the amount of water lost from the lungs (EWL) fluctuated depending upon different factors e.g. heat and / or lack of a drink.  I assume the authors mean it took more than 30 minutes for the amount of water lost from the lungs to revert back to the normal  'resting' rate.  

[OLDYELLOW]

Cheers IB

[Guest Freebird]

All very interesting. Honey in the water will do them good as it does ourselves.

[Chairman]

the best money can buy and its human grade is "Dioralyte" original (plain) it comes in individual sachets and you can obtain

it from your local chemist.There are many other brands available at a varying degree of costs but I find this the best and fully

endorse the product for use on pigeons.

[Guest Paulo]

Save your money and just buy a big box of glucose from the chemist for two quid.