Guest strapper Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 there was a survey done ,which i read recently when i was touring the web on this subject, the site which it was on escapes me right now as ive slept since then lol. and ive read loads...i will try to find it for you to see. and return...how does using a medication cause a disease?...maybe kidney/liver disease? through damage to them....what evidence do the athorities have? and which authorities. it can cause resistance to some medications..which is a known fact.
Guest cowboy Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 CYRILS PIGEON AND PET PREVENTATIVE HEALING PROGRAM A FEW POINTS TO ... Treats Paratyphiod . Tylosin. Treats respiratory problems. Gabrocol/Chevicol. Treats Trichomoniasis. Altabactine (not Chevita) Treats Paratyphiod /salmonella ... www.risoftware.co.za/pigeonprogramme/cyril-pigeonprogramm2006.pdf
Guest strapper Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 info for ib...been looking for site but cannot find it yet m8... but found this by very well respected dr david marx According to Dr David Marx, it is a rare loft that doesn't have infected birds, a finding that may surprise many scrupulously clean fanciers who consider their lofts to be paratyphoid-free. It is a common finding that newly introduced, healthy looking birds may be a source of this infection -- which is why wild pigeons or strays from another loft should not be allowed into your loft. Naturally, it is always possible that your own race birds may have been exposed to one or more paratyphoid-infected birds during shipping, so racing is always a risk, not only for paratyphoid infections, but others as well -- E. coli, coccidiosis, paramyxovirus, etc.. heres a good link for this and a few other diseases.. http://myweb.cableone.net/searl/IWC/Selected%20Diseases%20of%20Racing%20Pigeons.htm
greenlands Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Posted October 20, 2009 Just incase you haven't seen paratyphoid,don't get it mixed up with pmv. http://www.pigeontv.com/public/113.cfm Lindsay
Guest IB Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 there was a survey done ,which i read recently when i was touring the web on this subject, the site which it was on escapes me right now as ive slept since then lol. and ive read loads...i will try to find it for you to see. . The most recent article I’ve seen on paratyphoid is ‘paratyphoid revisited’ by Wim Peters, published in BHW 9TH October, pages 26/27. :- In 4th paragraph, he refers to tests carried out in Holland, doesn’t say when, but figures are interesting, ‘1000 dropping tests done, 28% of them were positive for salmonella’ so that’s 280 out of 1000, hardly endemic as Marx and others claim. Worrying statistic is number of baskets found infected at end of season = 73% and I honestly don’t know what is meant by that as Wim infers in column 2, paragraph numbered 1 that panniers aren’t disinfected. A recent study done much nearer home and therefore more relevant to Britain, which I’ve posted on several times, was an outbreak of YBS in Northern Ireland in 2007. 9 affected lofts, each housing between 30 & 140 young birds were investigated. The researchers found all these in the birds:- Trichomonas, mixed bacteria, Chlamydophila psittaci, Circovirus, Candida, Staphylococcus, E coli, Pseudomonas, Hexamita, Coccidia, worms (ascarids & hairworm). But no Salmonella. This is what they had to say about that finding:- A heavy growth of E coli was found in only 1 bird in this study. Salmonellosis is reported to be the most common bacterial infection of pigeons, with young birds being most susceptible. In this study we found no evidence of Salmonella infection. Infections caused by both E coli and Salmonella are considered by some to be related to poor management. The low incidence of such diseases in this study is notable. and return...how does using a medication cause a disease?...maybe kidney/liver disease? through damage to them....what evidence do the athorities have? and which authorities. it can cause resistance to some medications..which is a known fact. Wasn’t inferring caused disease, but that it made bird less well equipped to fight disease. And if resistance has been built up, may find it very difficult to treat. Resistant to one antibiotic, resistant to all in same class. Parastop & Baytril belong to same family of drugs. Authorities I quote are DEFRA, SAC and HPA. Covers animals & humans.
Guest frank dooman Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 this is especially for the ones that are against treating blind.. how many of you are getting your family ready for the swine flu jab? how many of you have had your children vaccinated against tb in school? how many of you have elderly folk and you push them into having a regular flu jab? how many of you have vaccinations against what ever b4 you go abroad? how many take regular medication to stop heart attacks? there is no 50/50 or phone a friend .. treating blind is sometimes nescessary to prevent...what ever your beliefs! there is no excuse for not treating blind(prevention) when lives are at risk sometimes in certain cases TREATING BLIND IS RIGHT! i agree 100% i hear on here many times get your birds tested from a good vet dont treat blind now thats in a perfect world most local vets will ask you what you think is wrong when you take pigeons to see them so if after you telling him what you think is wrong and he gives you what is needed to treat it is that not still treating blind most vets dont have a scooby about birds. is parastop not 1 of the things to treat salmonela and e-coli etc??i thought it says that on the tin
greenlands Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Posted October 20, 2009 It looks a though Dr van der sluis does a cheaper treatment for paratyphoid. http://pigeonnetwork.com/advertisers/index.html Agent Derek Rooney phone 01925 721328 Anyone tried this product. Lindsay.
ch pied Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 active ingredient in parastop is norfloxacinwhich brand of PARASTOP contains this fluoroquinolone / norfloxacin . other than the pantex brand .
frank-123 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 went to an avian vet few miles from me cost a small fortune to examine one bird told me my bird had a bad bacteria infection which could be salmonella it would cost a lot more to find out if it was salmonella her words treat all your birds with something(cant remember) if more come down with it we will use baytril blind treating from an avian vet don't believe these people saying don't treat blind paratyphoid is rife just not many guys telling cider vinegar baytril and i still have a problem looks like i should have listened to a club mate wheelie bin
ch pied Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 that's the sad fact . the vet's go for a big gun BAYTRIL from the off . in stead of doing sample's the correct way . i have seen this many a time . 1 vet knock's out amoxicillian , amprol , nyastan , £75 a touch . and that's to every fancier that goe's to him . this guy cover's all the base's / a$$ , he is portaying himself as an avain vet . No True avain vet would go down this road , They will TEST first .
biglad Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 think i posted this already but active ingrediant in parastop is norfloxacin
frank-123 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 The most recent article I’ve seen on paratyphoid is ‘paratyphoid revisited’ by Wim Peters, published in BHW 9TH October, pages 26/27. :- In 4th paragraph, he refers to tests carried out in Holland, doesn’t say when, but figures are interesting, ‘1000 dropping tests done, 28% of them were positive for salmonella’ so that’s 280 out of 1000, hardly endemic as Marx and others claim. Worrying statistic is number of baskets found infected at end of season = 73% and I honestly don’t know what is meant by that as Wim infers in column 2, paragraph numbered 1 that panniers aren’t disinfected. A recent study done much nearer home and therefore more relevant to Britain, which I’ve posted on several times, was an outbreak of YBS in Northern Ireland in 2007. 9 affected lofts, each housing between 30 & 140 young birds were investigated. The researchers found all these in the birds:- Trichomonas, mixed bacteria, Chlamydophila psittaci, Circovirus, Candida, Staphylococcus, E coli, Pseudomonas, Hexamita, Coccidia, worms (ascarids & hairworm). But no Salmonella. This is what they had to say about that finding:- A heavy growth of E coli was found in only 1 bird in this study. Salmonellosis is reported to be the most common bacterial infection of pigeons, with young birds being most susceptible. In this study we found no evidence of Salmonella infection. Infections caused by both E coli and Salmonella are considered by some to be related to poor management. The low incidence of such diseases in this study is notable. Wasn’t inferring caused disease, but that it made bird less well equipped to fight disease. And if resistance has been built up, may find it very difficult to treat. Resistant to one antibiotic, resistant to all in same class. Parastop & Baytril belong to same family of drugs. Authorities I quote are DEFRA, SAC and HPA. Covers animals & humans. i would say 280 out of a thousand is a serious problem
robbiedoo. Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 spoke to bob mcdonald about salmonella he got it a few years ago .he tried a few top pigeon vets got baytril and some other products to try none of them cured it the end result was he had to kill about 250 pigeons he says there is no cure for it.
Guest Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 spoke to bob mcdonald about salmonella he got it a few years ago .he tried a few top pigeon vets got baytril and some other products to try none of them cured it the end result was he had to kill about 250 pigeons he says there is no cure for it. What no cure for samonella tell that to the chicken farmers :-/.
robbiedoo. Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 thats just what the man told me and what he dose,nt know is not worth knowing .
biglad Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 not sure who else produce's it but parastop is the company name for norfloxacin if any other company has the licence it will be under the drug name of norfloxacin
mark croker Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 spoke to bob mcdonald about salmonella he got it a few years ago .he tried a few top pigeon vets got baytril and some other products to try none of them cured it the end result was he had to kill about 250 pigeons he says there is no cure for it. More than likely had cirovirus, salmonella will keep popping up untill the bird fights the virus
mark croker Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 What no cure for samonella tell that to the chicken farmers :-/. The stuff that the chicken farmers use does not work for are birds, they put it in the water but i does not seem to enter the pigeons blood stream this way
jacksafc Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 With regard to the evidence IB is looking for there have been many lofts containing para infected birds, these can be seen, its not a theory. The figure of 28% carrying the disease seems very high inded. A widely held opinion is hat in many cases it is being spread via panniers due to members injecting during the season with live vaccine, a trait that seems to be on the increase. Just wondering if anyone had any opinions on this.
Guest IB Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 i agree 100% i hear on here many times get your birds tested from a good vet dont treat blind now thats in a perfect world most local vets will ask you what you think is wrong when you take pigeons to see them so if after you telling him what you think is wrong and he gives you what is needed to treat it is that not still treating blind most vets dont have a scooby about birds. is parastop not 1 of the things to treat salmonela and e-coli etc??i thought it says that on the tin Frank, you have easy access to one of the acknowledged avian veterinary experts in Scotland Andrew Lawrie, on the High Station Road in Falkirk. Might be worth a visit.
Guest frank dooman Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 Frank, you have easy access to one of the acknowledged avian veterinary experts in Scotland Andrew Lawrie, on the High Station Road in Falkirk. Might be worth a visit. i didnt know we had any good ones in this area ian thats good to know but whats his costs like?? times are hard
glencameron Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 David Marx is an avian vet from the US (He is quoted earlier as the source of information). Within the US to specialise in pigeons to any degree due to the scarcity of fanciers in a vast country you effectively have to be a supermarket to sell your products. If you are Dr Frans Marien who has a specialist practice in Belgium (and class fancier) you do not need to tout your wares as your money comes from the visiting and testing lofts on a regular basis. Now Frans Marien clients are not abusers of any drugs as resistance is the key to sustained form over longer time frames. Prudent use when required is more expedient. Ok we do not have that facility in the UK to test but to treat blind is very risky. If you have cause to believe you have paratyphoid it would be wise to send samples away. If the result is positive make them cultivate the bacteria they will then be able to ascertain which particular course of medicine offers the best treatment. Remember Parastop is merely a generic brand. Outside of the well known vets in the UK, the Scottish Agricultural College will perform this service at reasonable rates That said many excellent fanciers do treat blindly. But is wrong to state it is a requirement. In the long run much better to eliminate anything that is susceptible to non perfect health. Of course in an out break treat. When quoting vets , I would suggest we restrict ourselves to only consider vets who race well. Not vets with wares to sell From Norbert Ally, For Paratyphoid a preventive antibiotic treatment is meaningless because antibiotics have no preventive action on absent germs nor on germs in ‘dormancy’ (so as in germ-carrying healthy pigeons). Unfortunately there is as of today no effective vaccine against Paratyphoid. As he concludes Antibiotics: “The more you use it, the more you lose it!†Medication should be applied purposefully and correctly A useful link is http://www.norbertally.be/wetenschapper_EN.htm The usage of 28% carrying a disease means little unless its meaning is expanded. For example we all possess the ecoli bug at present (100%) . But we have it at manageable levels and therefore we have an eliment of resistance in our day to day lives. Again I am neither arguing for or against many top lofts treat blind (bad ones do to) but like everything in pigeons there is a blur between definitive rights and wrongs.
frank-123 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 Frank, you have easy access to one of the acknowledged avian veterinary experts in Scotland Andrew Lawrie, on the High Station Road in Falkirk. Might be worth a visit. hi ian aye correct thats where i went to his practice in cumbernauld young lady vet looked at my bird as i said various tests were carried out total waste of time and money she told me nothing but charged plenty i sought the knowledge of a top notch fancier who has helped me but i think it was too late to save my bird that took a great postion in the snfc this year but after treating with baytril and cider vinegar the rest of my birds look ok but looking like the wheelie bin for the bird i wanted to save
frank-123 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 i didnt know we had any good ones in this area ian thats good to know but whats his costs like?? times are hard £22 just to get in the door once your in the cost's just keep adding up
Guest IB Posted October 20, 2009 Report Posted October 20, 2009 With regard to the evidence IB is looking for there have been many lofts containing para infected birds, these can be seen, its not a theory. The figure of 28% carrying the disease seems very high inded. A widely held opinion is hat in many cases it is being spread via panniers due to members injecting during the season with live vaccine, a trait that seems to be on the increase. Just wondering if anyone had any opinions on this. Figures are regularly misquoted. 28% figure refers to samples as in test tube samples of droppings taken from baskets. My point was to compare this survey against the 'hearsay' evidence that 99% of lofts were infected, without figures to back that up, and then these figures pushed by some as 'facts' , and applicable world-wide, = complete nonsense. I agree with your opinion that vaccinating with a live vaccine would cause the bird to shed live salmonella both in the loft and in the race basket. Would not expect the bacteria to be infective? But they would show up in dropping tests. Which may have happened in the test cases above?
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