pigeonscout

ok here is one for you eyesign men this is the eye of the best breeding pigeon that ever lived

birdman55678 You say that all claim without backup are false to me and will continue to mean nothing without verification. I agree with this statement and that is why I ask to see the results that eyesign worked. You see birdman we both have something in common we like to see the proof. So before you start to believe in eyesign why not do what im am doing and ask to see the proof.

birdman55678 I know no one that has posted on here. Now I would not say I had won something if I had not. There cannot be that many fanciers racing only Hartog that took the firsts 7 out of 10,000 + birds. So if you do a bit of homework you should be able to find out who I am. You say never pairs birds with the same colour eyes all I have is white eyes so I have no choice. You also say I will not part with any actual knowledge what is it you want to know if I can help you I will but this is about eyesign those who believe and those that do not can put their points across. Im not here to put anyone down Im here to give my views on eyesign. Some people believe it works and that it will help fanciers pick breeders of winners. I believe if they use eyesign to pick breeders it will hold them back. It is up each person to read the points made and take his own path.

The man who thinks he has the next race won is in for the biggest shock of all

As I said before you are only as good as your next race.

birdman55678 The fun is not winning the fun is trying to win.

Could it be that we have changed the pigeon by breeding it to be faster be it for short or long distance the main aim has been to make them faster. The question is have we made the birds weaker in all other fields in our quest for speed. Take the grey hound as an example it is fast but good at very little else. Could it be that when the modern day pigeon makes a mistake it does not have what it takes to survive long enough to get home. Is faster better? I do not know but faster is what we are looking for. Is it a case of bigger losses and faster birds or fewer losses and slower birds. How many birds in our lofts could survive in the wild? You can see the birds that can survive in the wild on any city street but I don't think you would win many races with them.

Albear You say you do not believe in eyesign then go on to say you can look in to the pigeons eye and see its constitution and capability. I have never called you rubbish because you have no performances I am not that narrow minded. As anyone knows, no matter how good your results may have been you are only as good as the next one. I ask for your performances to show me what you claimed was true and that was you could go into anyone's loft and pick their best breeding and winning birds surely a man with that gift would himself have winning birds. You say you ain’t got what you elitists have is money, I have no short cut ability to go to the head of the well and buy the best. Well, the most I have ever paid for a bird was £80 and that was 6 years ago and guess what? it was rubbish. I was gifted 6 Hartog birds form a top fancier and from that I have build a family. You reckon the main guys are Vandenebeele guys with M & D Evan's birds. And possibly Pigeon scout is Mark Evan's, Well im not Mark Evan's and have never met him. As far as the Vandenebeele pigeons are concerned I have not one drop of Vandenebeele blood in my loft. There may be a team of guys ganging up on you im not one of them I have only been on this site one week and do not know anyone on it in person. You call me an elitists please belive me when I tell you I am not. There is an old saying if you want to be successful find someone who is and copy them. That is all I do, I learn form the men at the top. If you learn all the things two top men know you will know more than any one of them.

Saffer I don't think you need to show results after all why would you need to? I have never heard you claim to have the gift of picking birds that will breed winners by using eyesign. I had to show that I have produced winners without using eyesign. I have yet to get the results from the men who say they can pick breeders of winners by using eyesign. I would expect their results to be far greater than mine as they only have to look into a birds eye to see if it can breed winners. Me on the other hand can spend years trying to find a pair of birds that will breed winners and when I do get lucky the search for another pair starts. You see breeding is gold racing is silver but without silver we cannot tell if we have struck gold.

Albear No, you can breed a pair of champion racers and never breed a winning bird. I am like most people I try different pairs in the hope to find a pair that will breed me winners. But I believe that you will find them pairs more often by pairing from winning blood. If you have 12 birds that have all won races and pair them in section 1. Then take 12 birds that have never been in the result and pair them in section 2. I think you will find that most of the winning birds you breed are coming from section 1. Some of you will say that your best breeding pair have never raced but can you say that they have not come from a winning blood.

For flight the most important fuel is fat if you follow this link you can read all about it. http://www.kjsgroup.com/rprs/aspx/docview.aspx?/rprs/itlasp/March2001/GrainsFuelandPigeonRacing.asp

Silverwings The hawks in my part of the country are not fast enough to catch pigeons because they are Down from parents with bad eyesign. It makes you wonder what eyesign men are pairing up the hawks to make them fast enough to do their job. Lets face it if there where no eyesign men pairing them up their young would never be fast enough to catch anything. Then again maybe nature plays a part as only the fastest can survive and go on to breed young that are fast. Maybe that's why they have been around for so long what do you think?

Albear You say Pigeonscout come on lets have some info about your methods how you select and your performances, this pleb is interested and will happily take my hat off if you are an ace. You want to know how I select? your the one that was telling everyone you could go into anyone's loft and pick their best breeding and winning birds. Why would an expert like yourself be interested in how a narrow minded person like me selected his birds? One thing you can be sure of is I must be doing something right. No one knows what will breed winners until it has done so and even then it is not 100%. that it will do it again. All we can do is try to find the birds that breed them and you can only do that by racing their offspring and not by looking into its eye. A Wise man once told me that if you find just two pairs that will breed you winners you are a very lucky man.

Albear What sort of results would you like In the last 8 years I have won 90 + straight first no doubles. Racing a maximum of 12 old birds and 35 young birds. club fancier of the year 5 times. fed fancier of the year 3 time. Best result to date is the first 7 in the open 10,000 + birds. Now that I have said that I also want to say I do not class myself as a top fancier there are a lot of fanciers race better than me. Im still learning but im learning from winning fanciers.

Silverwings After reading your post I think you have lost the plot. could someone else explain to Silverwings what I mean by hart.

Albear you say Jack Barkel has probably forgotten more than you and I put together know, Yes I agree but has he won more?

I though my contribution was clear and that was if you pair your birds using eyesign you are going no where in this sport. I will put it another way, the people like yourself that are telling new comers that eyesign will breed them winners are starting them of on the wrong foot. If you are going to help people in this sport then tell them fact things that work be able to back it up with results. It is silly to tell them eyesign works when it has not worked for you or any other eyesign man I have heard of. Now let me ask you a question how far to the top of this sport has your eyesign method took you? Do you not think it is time for you to listen to the men who are winning and open your own mind to the fact that eyesign is getting you no where and that the men who don't use eyesign are the ones at the top. So for all you new comers reading this, my advice to you is only take advice from the men that are winning.

I feed the young birds before 12 noon day of basket a handful at a time until they start to leave the barley 20 mins after that I take the drinker out. 1 hour before basket time I put drinker back in and they all take a good drink. 15 mins after that the motivation starts. To tell you how I motivate would be wrong as the motivation depends on what sort of race it is going to be. Also the motivation for one bird could be all wrong for another so study you birds and work out what makes each of them tick. The above has won me over 60 + first over the last 8 years so it works for me. I do not win every race so there are other methods that also work.

1lb Fresh elderberry mixed with 1 pint of warm not boiling water let soak for 24 hours then pour into your ice cube tray freeze then put into bag and put back into freezer. Then all you have to do is drop one elderberry ice cube into drinker when needed. If you like you can add to this with garlic also or mix both at same time. I do not add anything to the water the day of basking as I want the birds to drink as much fresh water as I can.

You could race the cocks up to 250 mile then switch to the hens for the longer races. I do not think hens are any better at longer distance but when the birds have to spend two nights in the basket it is my belief that the cocks spend two days fighting in the basket and the hens two days resting.

When people talk about 30 years experience are they talking about someone that has for 30 years moved forward in the sport or are they talking about someone that has been doing the same thing for 30 years and got nowhere? Has he raced pigeons for 30 years or has he raced pigeons one year 30 times? You can work as a nurse in a hospital for 30 years it will not make you a brain surgeon.

Silverwings It was me who talked about hart but what I was referring to was the bravery of the bird? I do not believe in eyesign and the first thing I look at is the eye. It is the same if I look at a dog it just gives me some idea of its health.

pj1001 I agree with you when you say, Personally I think that it is every individual fanciers choice to whether they believe or disbelieve eyesign and eyesign theories. Well, I disbelieve and because I disbelieve I have been called narrow minded. Silverwings Eyes, wings, tails, muscles, inteligence, feather quality, etc any way that individual fanciers can improve the smallest detail can only benefit our pigeons. I also agree with this statement but all of this is only one half of what we need to see in or birds the other half is deep within the bird and it is called hart. Most of us can tell a bad bird just by holding it but in order to tell a winning bird you must race it. Only by racing it can we tell if it has the spirit and will to win. I have said from the start of this, the only way to find out if a bird can breed a winner is to race its offspring. No other method can tell you all the things a good pigeons needs to win including good management. So for a person to tell me he can go into anyone's loft and pick the birds that will breed him winners just by looking into its eye and when I don't believe him he calls me narrow minded I think I have every right to put my views across.

You are making a living telling people how to pair their birds. You are telling them you have this wonderful gift and that the birds you pick will breed them winners. You class yourself as an expert in this field yet with all your experience and gifted eyesign talent you could not breed enough winning birds to make yourself a club champion? All I can say is God help the eyesign men that take your advice. After all if you could not make club champion what chance have they?

Oldbird You say, I have also bred a South African Middle Distance National Champion on the coefficient system with 886,008 birds competing in this coefficient pool. This was off a long distance Busschaert family of Dr Jeff Horn origin Up North Combine. You are saying what I have been saying all along it is the genetic back ground that counts not its eyesign. You must know this or you would not have talked about its genetic back ground you would have talked about its parents eyes.