showman

Best wishes,and hope PFL stays in check ! Paul

Thanks for your sentiments Cemetary. Sincerely Paul

I know what you're saying Sharkfin....Pigeon Fanciers are getting thin on the ground, and so I think this is an opportunity for the Fancy to band together and help this guy......even if it's only words of support. Paul

Sincerest thanks IB. That's the sort of input and support we need I'll take a note and pass it on Thanks again Paul

Why hi-jack , what I see as a very serious thread.....If you want to have some banter and a joke, try phoning John and see if he thinks it's all funny Paul

Eamon is from the village of Magheralin, which was trying to annexe itself onto Donaghcloney, so combined we could call ourselves a small town !! Unfortunately Donaghcloney City Council objected to the annexation !!! How goes it Eamon.......long time no see !! Paul

I can assure you JarGre...no apology needed !! When it comes down to it any interested parties have little time to get our act together and pass on to John any advice or legal facts we can possibly muster. I suppose I'm slightly biased in that I have known John, Michael and Annette for years through the N.I. Show Racer Society, but I really do want us to at least show a bit of solidarity with fellow fanciers who at the moment are going through Hell on earth in order to keep their beloved birds. I mean, think of it, these people would have to give up their family home,and re-locate, and what for ?........their pigeons !! Sincerely Paul

So far,any action has been, and will be at Magistrate court. When they make another ruling in Feb 2010 (see previous posting) it is then that any appeal will be heard at County court. It is then something more can be done (see previous posting) Sincerely Paul

Chrisss Take a look back through the thread, you will see I know him personally, and the whole outline of the case is laid out Cheers Paul

There is no doubt that the planning regulations were breached, but do we simply accept that and go down without a fight ! Nay !! say I. At this point I would like to express my thanks, especially to JarGre and Vanlink through PM's received, to all those who will support John in his future endeavours. There is I believe an old saying / adage.....' You're either for us, or against us ' I will leave it to you all to decide. " ....But we in it shall be remembered We few, we happy few, we band of brothers For he today who sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother, be he ne'er so vile, This day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England now a-bed Shall think themselves accursed they were not here, And hold their manhood cheap while any speaks That fought with us upon St. Crispins Day " Paul.

Nice & tidy......reminds me of my first ' loft ' Best of luck with it . Cheers Paul

Nice & tidy......reminds me of my first ' loft ' Best of luck with it . Cheers Paul

Hi JarGre The loft was erected circ. 2000 / 2001 Paul

Hi Babybird My advice would be to bite the bullet for a while, and see what, if any, problems occur. If things do start going awry, then make a nice approach to this man. Best wishes Paul.

Hi Folks, I wonder is there anyone who can shine some light on this for me ? Some years ago I purchased ( from Boddy & Ridewood ) a copy of the book ' The Four Seasons ' by Joseph Heuskin. On the copyright page at the front, there is a printed version of his signature. In my book there is also what appears to be a 'ball-point' signature of the same. Does anyone know could this be possible ? Thanks Paul.

Been talking to John again.......Union has been involved.

Hi Folks, Have just had a lengthy conversation with John Edgar to find out the current state of the parties !! The family in question are due back in the Magistrate courts in February 2010. Whilst there is no argument, per se, by the family regarding Planning regulations, there are quite a few more twists and turns to the case. Unfortunately, being a one-fingered typist, it would take me 'til Sunday to put it all down here !! Whilst this case is still at Magistrate level, John has talked to an official at County level, who has encouraged him a bit by saying he could see Johns' point of view, and that if he had the money, it could be taken further !! If anyone would like a few more details, I will gladly discuss same.....Ph. 028 3888 1001 as like I say, there's too much to start typing it down here. I remainSincerely Paul PS Don't worry about phoning late, as I intend to stay up until midnight in case anyone rings !!

Unfortunately, Vanlink, we do seem to have different planning regulations in Northern Ireland. Any pigeon loft does need planning permission, as does changing the use of an existing building to keep pigeons in. As I said in a previous posting, what I believe happened was they purchased this house and erected their loft without initially consulting with their prospective neighbours to ask if there would be any objections, or seeking the relevant legal planning permission. After the loft was erected, the neighbours took exception to their loft, and presented their objections to, I believe in the first instance, the local council. Due to there not being any planning approval sought nor given on the lofts' erection, the situation has evolved to where it is now.

Were there any birds in collision with the wires Jack ?

Tell me I'm seeing things.......but in a couple of the photos.....do I see electric wires !!!!!! If they are wires.....Utterly appaling and beggers belief......someone needs to be quizzed for liberating birds at this spot, as they don't seem to have the birds best interest foremost in their minds !! Paul

Brilliant looking job Mick....looks like a really enjoyable space, and can imagine birds wil be happy & comfortable in it. Best wishes to Jack. Paul.

Over the past few years I have talked to John about his problems with his loft etc To my knowledge, when the family moved to their current address, they erected the loft as it is now. The arrival of the loft envoked a negative reaction from existing neighbours, who in turn, got the local Borough Council involved. From there it went to the Divisional Planning office and ultimately the Courts. The Northern Ireland Planning Service have published a list of Guidelines and Objectives, whilst also stating what issues may be involved. 1. All pigeon lofts require planning permission. 2. Changing use of an existing structure to keep pigeons in requires planning permission. 3. The floor area of the loft erected shall not exceed 8 square metres ( for example loft shoul not be bigger than 12' x 6' ) Larger lofts are permitted viz : In a rural location or where there are very large curtilages. In some instances where the curtilage is restricted the floor area would be reduced. 4. The loft shall be raised between 1/2 metre and 1 metre off the ground. etc, etc. Also, one of the issues they raise is : Many new suburban public housing estates and redevelopment areas have no tradition of pigeon keeping yet residents living or coming to live in these areas often do have such a tradition. I think possibly this is the issue which envoked the displeasure of their neighbours and this then spiralled up to the Courts being involved. I have known John, Michael and Annette for years. They are just a normal bunch of people, who do quite literally live for their pigeons. When novices have visited them, it would not be uncommon for them to be given the pick of the loft....nothing held back !! Fact !! I've also known that these 'pick of the loft' leave with no money changing hands. What a gesture !! How many of us can say that !! They are truly genuine people and I feel so sorry that their neighbours started this aggrevation without knowing what these people are really like. You can be my neighbours any day of the week !! I wish them nothing but the best of luck in selling their house....and for God's sake John, suss out the neighbours and planning regs. at your next house......before you buy !! Paul.

Have been looking through this thread and, as a show organiser, have been very interested at most of the postings. Firstly, can I congratulate Russell and his committee for putting in a lot of hard work and time spent to get this Classic show back into the calendar again..it was a sadly missed event..best of luck with the entries mate, and I know you'll reach the 500 quota. Deciding what classes to put on can be a bit of a nightmare for the organisers, but what I would ask of any fancier is to give some thought about supporting this Classic Charitable event, and take their birds along to the show for the classes that do exist. If good numbers of entries are received in the racing section, then is the time to make an approach to the organising committee asking them to take another look at classes available. If they see that racing classes are being supported, then they hopefully would look on the request in a favourable way. Let's not try to get sucked into the 'what's in a name' debate. True, the show is part titled as a Racing Pigeon show, but don't forget, that the roots of the Show Racer lies within the Racing Pigeon. In very simplistic terms, the show racer of to-day owes it's origin to fanciers taking exceptional exhibition quality racing pigeons, and through decades of selective breeding, have arrived at what we now term a Show Racer. Let us also acknowledge that this type of breeding still exists to-day, with fanciers selectively breeding better looking 'racing pigeons' in an attempt to fool the judges. Eamon, I love your attitude.....I always looked upon showing as a glory thing, prize money never entered my head. Above all, I would again ask that you support this show if at all possible, and, unlike a previous, nearly unbelievable posting which said if you don't like it stay away....don't take up this attitude....support the show if you can, and then make your representation to have classes modified. Sincerely Paul.

Anyone who wants to learn more about show racers, should definitely get their hands on a copy of Doug McClarys'book....PIGEONS FOR EVERYONE. This will give you a really good insight into what is basically required.

Great turnout thanks, Chickadee, over 800 entries. What a weekend !!!