They were birds that had been handed in damaged and the owners did'nt want they back which i think is pretty poor for our sport there were 2 that i would'nt have minded a Cheq cock and a Red Pied cock 2 crackers. They did say to me if i did'nt want it back ie if i was going to kill it they would keep it themselves so can only quess thats whats happened to the other pigeons that are there so have to give them credit for that. Was'nt training mate lost off the loft