Roland

Agree a lot with vallance lofts here. Buesseart also bought - first off - heavily from Delbar, when no other Belguim would - which incidentlt they never forgave him. However George was honest and straight forward with his renowned saying 'When in my loft they are Bussearts' etc. Jansenne etc. had a lot of crosses, of course they did, and the ones that help produce etc. became wll known. And just look at the 'Families' that contain Jansennes etc. Nebver spell the names right lol.

Not from me as I wasn't interested in buying any... But it is out now and one way or another things will move on. Now like a previous poster said 'If the seller that is not so popular, say Timbarra, A, Hitchcok etc. would they have been hung out to dry'? I guess so. Fairs fair, but like you know, Folks are made up of some quirk behavior. And like I stated as of no interest to I shall refrain from posting again on this subject if possible, but Stu did - rightly - address me. And P.s. let's not have any slants at me to the effect that I have put a downer on 'Folks being able to get some class pigeons etc.' for that is simple not true and wouldn't hold water.

Remember wel, a former fancier not living too far from JAK JAK actually back 20 - no 30 years named Willis ( A Gas man), went with a fellow named DickOakley to several local silos etc. and rung only the baby black ones. He settled them in to the new home, and in 3 - 4 short years devasted the club and fed with some great results... Sold out for a good price too thereafter. Always told that they never even circled but went straight off from training flights. Just a point of interest. And another, 'Was it because they had returned a bit back to nature'?

Marvellous eh! Even Jan Ardens son say after a very short while the few left via his dad were no longer there, and was amazed that so many had these 'True Bloodlines'. Personally no matter what the Name / Strain, it's what they acheived under any name. After all 'A rose smells just as sweet under any other name'!

Trully pleased here.

Let's cut to the chase here. Never mind whether the birds are brilliant or a cull. Most know, or at very least are aware, that a One Loft set up was closed down as mention in the BHW I believe where a fair few, 1/6th I believe didn't even go ... maybe be just one in 6. etc. because of AIR carrying viruses and others such as the Para and PHar etc. Therefore many were not in the races for a starter. Seems this lot now for sell. So they weren’t lost, or achieved any ratings, as they didn’t go. Is this the case? For it seems that these are now being offered as being over it. Is this true Stu, and are these the very same birds. If so, what are the guarantees that they are still carriers ... many must know that carriers don't show signs often etc. etc. but they pass on, or can still infect others. As I am not interested in any way shape or form, I shalln't be bothering to comment on this subject again. But feel that if any truths here, that they should be sorted and genuine answers to sensible realistic questions should be answered. Ok so there may be some lofts that are carriers etc. etc in our home town ... but that doesn't, in my book, mean I have to bring in outside problems if they exist. And there is certainly a lot of smoke in this regards, and many willy - nillying and pussy footing around this hearsay etc. Am I concern? Well not from buying them myself... but am if someone is entering these birds youngsters in my club, Fed race crates. Hence I feel that this matter be laid to rest by some self right answers by Stu etc. If I am wrong, no harm done, if right, then at least the cards are on the table. So sooner mended lest said eh!

Yep dad said that... and plane of glass between floors walls etc. ,,, can't gnore through it.

For thoses that missed it, or have forgotten. Some Math +Logic: Here is a little something someone sent me that is indisputable mathematical logic. (It also made me Laugh Out Loud.) Remember, this is a strictly mathematical viewpoint. It goes like this: What Makes 100%? What does it mean to give MORE than 100%? Ever wonder about those people who say they are giving more than 100%? We have all been to those meetings where someone wants you to give over 100%. How about achieving 103%? What makes up 100% in life? Here's a little mathematical formula that might help you answer these questions: If: A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z is represented as: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26. Then: H-A-R-D-W-O-R-K 8+1+18+4+23+15+18+11 = 98% and K-N-O-W-L-E-D-G-E 11+14+15+23+12+5+4+7+5 = 96% But, A-T-T-I-T-U-D-E 1+20+20+9+20+21+4+5 = 100% And, B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T 2+21+12+12+19+8+9+20 = 103% AND, look how far ass kissing will take you. A-S-S-K-I-S-S-I-N-G 1+19+19+11+9+19+19+9+14+7 = 118% So, one can conclude with mathematical certainty, that while Hard work and Knowledge will get you close, and Attitude will get you there, its the Bullshit and Ass kissing that will put you over the top. 'REMEMBER: SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO SHOOT THEM.'

'Apples falling near a tree' is a adage so often used. Very nigh and mostly via 'Famed' fanciers when giving their advice to any one wishing to buy new introductions, or a new cross, and especially to newcomers and young beginners alike. Well again, if there is any truth, or belief to be found in this, then once again Louella are found to be the in place. Grandsons, daughters etc.. etc. are / were fetching just £30 - £35's! Now when one looks at some of the fanciers that have excelled with 'Louella' stock - and there are so many - it makes one wonder just what is the true value of other seller's birds! Sure one might here that they are from birds still racing! True, but the stock bird that bred them may very well, and more often than not, been in a race basket! Just look at the ole timer, or successfully flying in your club, - and the chances are very high - that along the line he has supplemented with Louella birds. Indeed many have bought a couple of kits of y/b's and started again with great success. Could name national and even international winners that were from Louella stock, etc. etc. And the point being!!! Simple really, how many birds from any sauce are better bred than what you get from 'Louella'? and secondarily, just why do other sellers believe that there birds, often inferior, especially to apples to the tree adage, think that they are worth times more? And thirdly newcomers, and old boys alike, just why does one believe that because they have birds from a 'Famed', and not so 'Famed' flyers merit a vast lot more of hard earnt cash! Indeed whom wonders just who is leading who up the garden path!

about £45, I'd reckon... but may be able to barter as one Couriers states.

Well, I suppose then, that taken that line Rose, one would only buy from thoses who's results are shown and known. Where in the real world, many time far far better birds on the day aren't even mention. It would take a lot of time, effort, patience to work out the reality of Location, wind, birdage, when sent for training etc. etc. We all know, if Honest, many 'Names' that aren't really doing the bius, and further aren't selling from the real deal. Just where does one draw the line? Indeed which direction?

That was of course before the myth of 'Over Crowding'.

Of course trhat great flyer from derby housed his pairs in a foot square boxes,...

A dozen foot square boxes with a foot in front wired in and sheltered from the elements. Knew of the lad that just flew to Rabbit hutches, a pair to each, and when he wanted more birds just added another rabbit hutch, I.e. aside of or on top. Won a National too from the stray that first went into his dad's shed that started the interest off. Club members donated a pair each, and had 4 on top of each other. Then the same again.

Now why is she having sucess, or could it be improved is all we are saying. It could well be, as far as I'm concerned because she instills a 'Love of Home' and 'Contentment! I am more interest in realising what the 'Main' reason is than any conjecture or theories. The summise of 'What If' is and should always be there. And sure one must also take into account 'Why'! Often, I believe, our birds prevail and shine in spite of our endeavours that do them no good whatsoever. Yes of course I am happy for Susan, and wish her every sucess etc. That goes without saying. Be nice to know why Susan believes her system works well, as well as why she believes other wouldn't. So no one ned to imply that anyone is knocking it ... just asking a realism of 'Why' and as I often spout, there is only one answer to Why... and that is because. Many, I believe, often don't relay to the answer of why, which is like a shot in the dark I guess.

Think it was the 'Reading Out Loud' part that made them take it lol ;D ;D

Yep, I lay traps for mice regularly, they lay idle, then I miss a week or two, then the od one... same agai, nights draw in and bang 7 or so till none.. then same again.

Quite simply if REDCHEQHEN ahdn't done as she did, who is to say that she was right? Surely there ia a possibilty that there would be fewer birds, but of a higher standard and more , and better results. This is what the good lady will never know. So drawing on expierence now eans that that has been proven to a certain level. If done different it wouls almost certainly have been a different result. Now whether poorer od better one will never know. Maybe another person now, with improvement in mind, may well split the birds into two groups - or more - and do something different. 2 -3 years down the line one would have the results of JUST them 2 -3 different aspects, and may want to change try another idea and split them ...

Agreed Albear... the Buyer has everyright to stay anno, and for whatever reason they feel. Likewise the seller. If they say that they have great birds and have done something special of not, or -Like me - say have introduced quite a few untested birds FOR ME, and I want for any reason to off load, I should be able to say 'Bought in good faith, have great store from where they've come from, but have 24 racing team already, and then 20 pair of stock... two rounds, is far too many, so the buyer has the same chance as I took, and may be great, may not .... What damage is done. If they look cool, and in good fettle etc when new own gets them, then I am in credit to some already. If one or two breed winners, great nowt WRONG with his' birds I can vouch... Now a top flyer would be more than pleased with 8 winners every 200 birds that passes through his hands... A real flyer will only ave 12 pairs and do the buisness. But in this day of Quantity over quality, too many are relying on just one or two being 'Good / let alone great I'm afraid. I have a few that will, as I say fly right through two Rds, between them. Next year I may well already have another round coming... But the year after that I must surely know what is any good of what is left... So,

A typical bloke, having split from his latest girlfriend, decided to take a holiday. He booked himself on a cruise and proceeded tohave the time of his life, that is, until the ship sank. He found himself on an island with no other people, no supplies, nothing, only bananas and coconuts. After about four months, he is lying on the beach one day when the most gorgeous womanhe has ever seen rows up to the shore. In disbelief, he asks, 'Where did you come from? How did You get here?' She replies, 'I rowed from the other side of the island. I landed here when my cruise ship sank.' 'Amazing,' he notes. 'You were really lucky to have a row boat wash up with you.' 'Oh, this thing?' explains the woman. 'I made the boat out of raw material I found on the island. The oars were whittled from gum tree branches. I wove the bottom from palm branches, and the sides and stern came from a Eucalyptus tree.' 'But, where did you get the tools?' 'Oh, that was no problem,' replied the woman. 'On the south side of the island, a very unusual stratum of alluvial rock is exposed. I found if I fired it to a certain temperature in my kiln, it melted into ductile iron. I used that for tools and used the tools to make the hardware..' The guy is stunned. 'Let's row over to my place,' she says. After a few minutes of rowing, she docks the boat at a small wharf. As the man looks to shore, he nearly falls off the boat. Before him is stone walk leading to an exquisite bungalow painted in blue and white. While the woman ties up the rowboat with an expertly woven hemp rope, the man can only stare ahead, dumb struck. As they walk into the house, she says casually, 'It's not much but I call it home. Sit down, please. Would you like a drink?' 'No! No thank you,' he blurts out, still dazed. 'I can't take another drop of coconut juice.' 'It's not coconut juice,' winks the woman. 'I have a still. How would you like a Pina Colada?' Trying to hide his continued amazement, the man accepts, and they sit down on her couch to talk. After they have exchanged their stories, the woman announces, 'I'm going to slip into something more comfortable. Would you like to take a shower and shave? There is a razor in the bathroom cabinet.' No longer questioning anything, the man goes into the bathroom. There, in the cabinet, a razor made from a piece of tortoise bone. Two shells honed to a hollow ground edge are fastened on to its end inside a swivel mechanism. 'This woman is amazing,' he muses. 'What next?' When he returns, she greets him wearing nothing but vines, strategically positioned, and smelling faintly of gardenias. She beckons for him to sit down next to her. 'Tell me,' she begins suggestively, slithering closer to him, 'We've been out here for many months. You've been lonely. There's something I'm sure you really feel like doing right now, something you've been longing for?' She stares into his eyes .. He swallows excitedly and tears start to form in his eyes..... > > > > > 'F*****g hell, don't tell me you've got Sky Sports?'

Well as beauty is in the eye of a beholder, so is the pedigree, fortunately every ones taste in meat is not same.! Likewise WITH the fairer sex... or I'd have ques of horny toads outside my door all day and night, and Maidment nowt... Instead I have hordes of screaming women seeking me... Knew I shouldn't borrowed of so many lol. So let me relate a little story. Went to Louella to meet up with a good buddy. We saw some great birds. He bought a few, me I was too tight. He looked at the eyes - not eye sign - and I looked and had a feeling, then I'd just pick up to see if it was the same when I held it. Wasn't a 100 miles adrift, but too be honest there was a lot of good class birds for sale, and at £30 to £35 were fantastic value. So we goes back to my loft. Yeah 80% likes what I thought was cool he 'Liked' full stop. 1 -2 -3 he thought would make a racer or breeder. Not offended of course, indeed more intrigued - better than codswallp loads of insincere twaddle to please - Yes intrigued as to what they do, or don't do. Most up to 2 year olds never been to a race yet. All will go pretty much the program North and South, alternating as I decide what for what race. So this time next year, we may well be both a little right, or one of us way out. But it will be interesting to say the least. Likewise when buying and selling. Lets have the silly questions from some, as they are possibly important to the person that is buying. Others will always soon have a 'Eye out' for the con artiste, who will be out in the open, and the seller beware. Simple really.

the younger they are the more all important ingrediant is there ... provided in Condition etc. of course - and thet is their sheer love and zest to fly. Yes they fly just for the sheer fun of it. After that becomes the 'Managerment aspects of keeping them content and processing their' love of home. Then healthy & Conditioned they are as good as they will ever be... if not performing to the standard you wish, then regarless of who's, or how much, the answer is simple. maybe great breeders, maybe not, but before the moult each year - unless fobbing them off of course - the all important decisions need to be taken.

Have no fears, nor problems with false names, as always it is the content that counts. Hence for my twopence worth I feel best left on an open forum. Not just for selling and everu and any other topic. Roland P.s real name Ivor Newman ;D ;D

Have a bird born September, and won the Scottish averages next season on her own, including winning Thurso just short of the 500 miles. This she did twice more in two different clubs. Was only bird on day 2006 from Thurso, and daughters took 2 -3 in another club, only three on day. I lost the mother this year from a smash. Mores the pity... but have hens off her and two cock birds...

Well have an empty wallet on me, and just enough cash to buy a feww tins to place in two bags ... a few condoms, and and am off to Tesco's this morning .... wish me luck everyone ;D ;D