Chairman

Old folks homes, thats were they use them in a bundance, but the grumpy old folks dont half get angry when you try to pinch them off them. If you know someone who works in one they can get them for you and they'll cost you nothing. They give them for treatment of bad guts, but if they stopped serving them turkey twizzlers and gave them quality meals to eat there would be no need for the flagyl tabs, would there?

Enough said, the kettle has boiled dry on the thread lets all take a breather and enjoy the site for what it stands for guys, sometimes with prudence we may have to agree to disagree, but nothing gained is nothing lost we are all important to each other to keep the site going so lets move on and respect each other?

I used to use it in my race baskets many years ago but found the birds got their toes stuck in it, prefer shavings now though?

Maybe it on setanta, no use to me we have not gone digital yet! I wonder if the satelite gone down, shot down or been effected by gale force winds in the outer hemisphere?????? Could they still be in the egg or not even laid up yet, or could be in quarantine? I cant look anymore I have spots in the back of my eyes, hope this is a good omen when it comes to channel racing, I scanned the skies for near on 6 weeks last season and didnt get a bird.

Old Yellow is bang on, SALT as contained in clay blocks and also Matrix I would add a quarter of a teaspoonful to a galley pot full of black mineral once they have took their requirement you could possibly purchase a salt lick from a farm store or a corn store that supplies horse feedstuff, then leave this about the loft in the case of prisoner stock or outside the loft where rain can wash and keep it clean.There is a small shortage somewhere but once they have taken what they require you'll find they'll leave it alone until the next round of youngsters.

Nae bother, the wife has crinkling all over her face and I can assure you she canny be in form she,s nearly sixty. I tewd her its nae use bothering wee lassy, I;ll have to get me a younger doo ! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D She says she's going to stay we her mother, until I reminded her that she's moved and is now buried inta village cemetary, aah she soon took her coat off and put the kettle on. ;D ;D ;D

If as a club secretary you would carry this verification out, you are not allowed to do so without the permission of the owner. Should you in your godly posistion as secretary interfere with this members bird, you will find yourself taken to court for discremination against that fancier and also on a charge of interference with a members race entries. Before you act I think it wise to get the club covered with a good Insuarance policy, but even check the small print as you will find out you are not covered for an Incidence of Injustice, which is what you doing if you choose to carryout this act of misconduct in your heavenly posistion as secretary. The simple answer is this cannot be stopped, until a rule is introduced against this happening, yes its frightening to think what would occur in your own club but the simple thing is we cannot act or enforce it happening until a rule is introduced. Oh Happy Days!

Rule 70. Not a chance, because the GREY area would be the interpretation of what is termed to be "Ungentlemanly Misconduct" unless the RPRA have a checklist of what is termed as, I am afraid any barrister worth his salt would lick his lips to get stuck in on this case. We could start another thread and ask each site user to make an entry of what he / she termed as Ungentlemanly Misconduct, Even the few fanciers of the past that were "signed high" were suspended for Gross Misconduct, would have got that stigma removed in a modern day court of law, an area into which the RPRA has always been retorted the bride and never the groom.

I cant see where you can visibly read the information of an ETS ring, by the human eye without the use of a electronic scanner? It could therefore be argued in a court of law, that this approved ring (ETS) does not reveal its information visibly so therefore what is the difference between an ETS ring and a ring that does not reveal its information because it is taped up or covered with a clip ring? There is neither a rule that denotes the duties or citations of the role of basket comittee members, basket convenors or whatever fancy title emits your club / organisation which legally entitles you to carryout unlawful practices.Now this is where the club officials are starting to make things up to deny this fancier his right to enter his bird into a race which entries must bear an old ring, he fits the criteria and now you have others denying him this right.The only way this can be stopped is by the RPRA issueing yet another rule, once this has been done then and only then can you put a stop to ths practice being carried out, you may act then with the provision of the rule behind you.

So now we move on the thread to the next phase 2:= The scenario is the youngster which is double rung it has a 2008 ring on one leg and a 2009 ring on the other, however the fancier now has an ETS fitted at the loft. When he goes to his club to register his birds through the scanner he submits the 2008 ring number as he wishes to send this bird into the race, which just happens to be an old bird race, he's doing nothing wrong he submits the 2008 ring which qualifies for entry into this old bird race, after all it is "deemed the ring". that is entered and not the bird.These youngsters with old rings on will after a couple of races murder the opposition, they will not hang around the lib sites there out and gone on their way home. Its like the pensioner robbed of his cash outside a post office, he will most likely be catching the young villian up towards the 100yard mark, but then most probably with fright of being caught the young villian steps up a gear and maintains that speed because of his youthfulness, well its the same with our pigeons they cannot keep the speed with these younger birds that is why the sport had defined races for Old Birds and races for Young Birds so everyone was on a even keel. Oh bye the way, the taped up ring, name & address rings are tolerated in shows but you have to either tape them over, so not to disclose the owners identity or you can now buy these clip over rings which do the same job, well the thought is this, if they are tolerated / allowed in the showing of pigeons then whats the difference with racing birds wearing them either clipped or taped whichever is the case the marking comittee are not allowed to interfere with them, they are only allowed to handle that bird and confirm the birds ring number which is visible. I told you this thread had many answers, interesting though! Oh! HAPPY DAYS (got me at it Joe 61).

Yes,, okay then the answer to why some fanciers do it, Its all down to MONEY I shall do a simple equation for all of us to understand, MORE WINS = MORE SALES = MORE MONEY. And the answer to "Are these youngbirds any good when it comes time to compete with other young birds" well they are unbeatable insomuch as these young birds are now 6 - 7 months old, have been raced up to the coast 200+ miles and are fully motivated to be raced on either a nest posistion, celibacy or widowhood, whilst the rest of the competing youngsters are just learning the ropes and more than likely coming back to the perch. Its not fair, It should'nt be tolerated and the rules can only be changed by you, the member, there is an alternative though, lets all go on the OSTRICH SYNDROME bury our heads in the sand, it may not happen in our clubs? but then again when or if it does it too late to do anything about it. FOOD FOR THOUGHT GUYS???

Hi Bob, very interesting point but would reference to these rules be for the Retension & Keeping of Documents / Records etc? Only one ring would be submitted and recorded onto the race sheet, the old ring for o/bird races then the 2009 ring for y/bird races. 120. Each Club shall keep a record for a minimum of two years showing the full ring number, colour, sex and owner’s name of every pigeon sent in races organised by the Club, whether competing or not. 178. In no circumstances may the details of the full ring number, colour, sex and owners’ name of every pigeon sent in a race arranged by an Organisation be destroyed less than two years after the date of the raced. So it is NOT the ring that is being raced, as rings do not contain colour or sex of the bird, NOT even on the respective governing bodies records of ownership.

I would like us all to debate this thread sensibly, and to research and debate this issue, I dont wish for you to get personal with one another but there will be many points of view expressed.It all boils down to what or how you interpret what the rulings says and the hardest one as my friend Paul (Strapper) or any Secretary acts should this practice happen in his / our own clubs. If you were to refuse a member carrying this out, it could happen that the secretary / club is taken to court and have proceedings issued against him / them, has your club got insurance cover to protect your officials in the event of this happening? Most clubs would not have, I think would be the answer. I see references made to "well you could tell at a glance that bird was a youngster" well I think you would not be able to use that as a point, because its the ring that needs to be verified at race marking and not the markers opinion as to the birds age. I am going to sitback now and play "Devils Advocate" and see how you all debate this thread, please remember Guys be courtious to each other its only a debate but it could happen at any club in the land, and maybe one day it could happen at your club. All is fair, in love and war.

Well its certainly got you all thinking this one out, I could enlighten you all that one of the all time greats of the fancy used this practice year after year despite the members and indeed region officials screaming foulplay at him, he stayed within his rights and asked them to quote a ruling thats says he could not carry on this paractice. In a nutshell there is not one, so therefore nobody can stop this practice or refuse his entries.JOE 61 is right, search your rule book and all it refers to is the ring, that is entered into the race not the bird. Many birds today are double-rung so which ring is to be entered? the other ring is ignored but if the owner wishes he can place either tape over the other ring or use a clip ring the fits over the top of the union ring, whether the rings that the pigeon is bearing is of the same year, again there is no rule to the effect that in a case of a bird being double rung it has to have both rings of the same year of issue, or of the same union?. I am afraid whether we agree with this paractice or not, the way the rules are at the moment we have nothing in our powers to stop this from happening, but any fancier worth his salt would not go down this road for personal gain, he would be too unpopular and he would end up being isolated by his own club members. Who's this alltime great I mentioned, well I shall be a gentleman and not reveal too much as regards his identity, all I will say is he made a fortune at Blackpool, but there again "a fool and his money is easily parted" when will you all learn, please do your homework before you spend your hard earned cash before bringing in new birds. There is a saying within pigeon men in Belgium and that is " Top pigeons,Top prices,Top Quality is Cheap" think of all the monies we have all spent before we got something decent in our lofts, food for thought guys???

A member of our club has rung his 2009 youngsters with 2 rings. A Old ring from 2008 and a New ring from 2009. He says he is going to train these early bred youngsters up and enter them into the old bird races upto the coast. He says he is correct to do so because the RPRA Rules allow him to do so, as the rules states that its is the ring and NOT the bird that is entered into the race. I said that they would be skinned alive being basketed alongside the mature widowhood cocks and he said that all his youngsters would be classified as hens and be basketed with the old hens. So I want your opinion on this thread, It does not stop there though as later on in the season he has told me that he will cut the old ring off their legs and compete with the same birds in the young bird races the only difference would be is that his youngsters have already raced down to the coast and most probably be flown on widowhood. have you heard of this before in your own areas??

I used to think the same myself and used many natural products thinking keeping near to nature I was providing the best for my birds. The idea behind the building of my birds building an an immunity to the bugs, well the only immunity they build up is against the bugs contained within their own loft enviroment. When they go to the races the birds are mixed together with many birds from different loft enviroments which contain many bugs and nasties that yours and my birds have not been exposed too.The professional flyers who are at the top every year are the guys who get to work on their birds as soon as they return.Now before you start the tapping of the keyboard to reply to my thread, what I mean is they are forward thinking fanciers, they want good results week after week because at the end of the day, its no longer a sport / hobby its a business RESULTS means SALES means MONEY and sadly that is the way they see our sport. The guys who fly a few birds each week and send the same small team through the programme upto 500 -600 miles competes in a more sedate way as the professional. No I dont for one minute suggest that we all have to reach for this bottle and that packet or even inject this on one day and 2 shots of that on fridays, the proffesional flyer manages his birds in a different manner to you and I.

Well done Jason, their a credit to you mate especially in this cruel weather, best of luck with the rest of them.

Injections you could use either Baypamune or Zylexis, alternatively you can also use a powdered form putting over the food the products name is medimmune marketed by Medpet, you can contact their agent in the uk on 0191 5144813.

Newt up here yet, its very cold -5 tonight, I am ready for it got my bucket n spade ready and my stick of Blackpool Rock for the snowman. Answers on a postcard please to where I am gonna stick it?

A message from Mr & Mrs Brown at No.10, I put your question to him and he replied, "It is with prudence that I recommend them to the House, if the right honourable gentleman wants to go the distance, I suggest he shuts up and gets on his bike and Invests heavily into the current market". ;D ;D ;D ;D

Welcome to the site Black Nite, its a good site we have a few characters on here which cause a lot of laughs as you will find out and we are glad to welcome you on board.yes you will find out for yourself that the game is changing very fast, differant feeds, systems but there is one thing that has not changed and that is.............................good old commonsense. Get a pad at the side of your pc write down our usernames and then you can scribble our personal names in too, then at a later date have fun entering them into your buddy list. If stuck give Old Yellow a shout he's brilliant on here!(okay mark thats another fiver you owe me) and like most of us will help you out just give us a shout when you feel confident enough. Best of Luck.

I have not found my loft yet, been digging since dinnertime heavy snow falling again its a bit too bleak, I shall have to try again in the morning they should be okay till tomorrow.

Roland if you ate my wife's cooking you'd certainly need vitamins albeit charcoal, everything she touches is burnt I even buy my brews out. And as for Bowel Activity, well mate I tell you there ain't enough hours in the day, what we save on eating in we spend on toilet paper. Like her father said at the wedding " I'm so proud of you son, you've done me a big favour".

I once had a larger lump on the back on my head, it was not too much protein that caused it, It was the wife's cast iron frying pan. what treatment did I use to remedy it happening again? Quite simply I came home on time. She indoors must be obeyed, yeah damn right Oh I should'nt have said that, I can feel another lump coming on, gotta dash!

Not bothered with "stray ins" there no spare room, full up to the rafters.