PigeonTracker

Checking out with a few for you Alun, will phone you tomorrow to see if we can get one for you. Sending you p.m.....

Let's hope Tesco's keep going then heh! ;D

Lots of good points Chris, and I know your in this field so will understand what I'm saying, the problem isn't getting drivers, its getting drivers who are willing or able to handle what goes with the territory of pigeon carrying. A multi-drop driver for shops or dirty goods like catalogue items are ten a penny and coming out of my ears, getting drivers who know about pigeons and the fickle nature of the fancier is a different ball-game entirely. You can't leave a pigeon in a bin or with the neighbour like you can with catalogue goods, you soon find out your neighbour develops a sudden allergy to feathers when you try that one. Top point you make on the networking part of it... Creating a network isn't always easy I agree there with you 100% but one thing for the pigeon world is that for the strays at least, we've got lots of fanciers more than happy to take in the birds and be a focal point for pickups, just like you've done with your stray center. We managed the last two months of racing/stray season last year so had time to get to know quite a few and it was surprising how many actually volunteered as opposed to being asked, most of these happened to be women fanciers or wives of fanciers who feed and water while hubby at work type of thing. We've got lots of breeders that have stuck by us loyally but you wonder how long the honeymoon period is going to last when they realize that even with the best will in the world you aren't going to get the squeakers out as fast as their customer demands. I even had Kieth from louellas tell me it was 'Law' to make sure the birds were delivered within 24 hours which I know for a fact is a load of nonsense, as long as the birds, young or old are looked after and its within a 48 to 72 hour window there should be no problems, the less hours for the babies though the better, but I know you'll agree on that one. Again, your spot on with delivery times, but the busier it gets the easier it is to keep it going, quiet times mean more distance between drops means less drops/pickups per van you can take on leading to less chance of covering your costs let alone making profit. The plus side to busy times is drops can be blocked in areas and its then when it gets easier. Couriers working together in a properly networked fashion is the only way this can be achieved though because as it is now with X number of couriers taking work from here there or anywhere its making hard work for everyone and people are getting let down as a result. The main problem, and I'm going to try and work on this, is the splinter effect caused by so many couriers coming along with limited ability. We're all going to build our own customer bases and if we look after them then alls' rosy in the garden for that particular set of customers, but unfortunately that's in an ideal world and this isn't an ideal world. The problem is that not one of us, me included, has the capacity to cover all corners of the UK without struggling or turning work down. I just got passed the Elimar's list of what's not been done due backlog, there is not a courier on this planet other than a major established dirty goods carrier that is going to be able to this so its down to me to pass all the work around the couriers out there and hope that we can work together as one to cater for this. Besides, its inevitable that Defra are going to come down hard on dirty goods and the transport of pigeons as a way of saying, "...if you care so much about your birds that you want something done about the hawks situation then why do you put them in danger when your getting them transported by people who haven't got a clue how to look after them..." Eggs in one basket comes to mind with the larger contracts such as Louella's and its a certain kiss of death taking them on unless your a major player who has 100's of vans and carry dirty goods at the same time. How many have they gone through since Amtrak's demize now? Three or four I think have all gone belly up, so a network is clearly the only way forward, or at least in my humble opinion it is. The thing is Chris, the problem is the demands being put on the couriers, and it matters not one bit how many vans you have, two or twenty two, if you can't fill them with birds going to the one area your vans are useless, because that's the only way ever to run at either break even or a small profit. Every courier out there barring none is going to 'cherry pick' and do what's best for them if they can and its that fact which might just be able to save us all provided this cherry picking is done in an orchestrated fashion. I told Les from Elimar just yesterday that we probably wouldn't be able do what even a small concern like his wants without using other couriers because of the geography of the customer so my plan is to at least try and get all the couriers to put their heads together and work together on the solving the problems we all face. If I fail then at least I can bow out knowing I've tried.

Your absolutely right Bob, but I wonder how people aren't seeing this fact? :-/ I got embroiled in a semi heated debate with a customer down in Wales this morning who complained that the bird had been in the box for '27 hours'. Thats after a 500 mile round trip to and from Yorkshire and then bringing it back down and having to deliver in a daytime hour (9-5). (All for just £30, it costs £50 in fuel to do that mileage, let alone time and effort, wear and tear etc etc...) Its made me seriously question why on earth I'm putting myself and my team under such ridiculous pressures and being subjected to such abuse, not even sure I want to put myself through it any more being honest. I know for a fact that I'm not going to be able do 24 hour delivery in squeaker season and don't know if anyone is going to be able to being truthful, maybe its time to reflect on my situation as I am never one to make false promise and maybe the demands that are going to be put on us by people wanting thier babies within 24 hours is going to be too much to take. Jimmy White had it right when we first met when he told me that people won't be happy until they've harrassed and bullied the couriers away and left with nothing but the bus or train to get thier birds. Decisions decisions, decisions..... :-/

Thanks for the kind words from each. Same day delivery or delivery within 24 hours isn't a guarantee and really does depend on whether the customer can stay up, as Peter rightly said, or perhap get up early to receive the birds, and or whether traffic is good, the birds are on direct routes and so on, the list goes on... I can't see how any company can guarantee 24 hour delivery? What if the bird had to be picked up from the depths of Cornwall to the tip of Scotland? I'm struggling to come to terms with how this can be done? Going to write a bit of an article on this issue later today as I feel strongly about the situation the courier and the fancier are left in now Amtrak are gone, need to point out the good and bad points from their demize.

It takes them 300 miles to warm up so distance is definately what they go for. Tumley Lofts do have some cracking birds there as do Steve Wright (House of Arden), two of the best breeders of the Aarden strain in the country imho.

You'll be best enlightned via p.m by someone Julia as I beleive it was Debbie's wish not to have her persnoal issues aired in public and the forum as a whole wish to respect that as I'm sure you'll understand. Take care Jamie

Your welcome Shawn, I took a minute and 11 seconds to park as your close is awkward to park in so was really 11 seconds early. 8) ;D Glad your were happy with the service.

If you haven't already been sorted can you let us know the postcodes as we know we're passing Teeside to go Newcastles and to Scotland and depending on the recipient we could easily drop them to destination on way back???

Flight of Fancy

Just thinking aloud here Bob, Ian Mckay, is doing a one loft race with the potential of getting schools involved as a syndicate unto themselves, wondering if we could get schools all around the country or at least one from each area to have some kind of involvement, kids go mad for competition and we with most of them on the computer these days they could be easily kept updated how 'their' bird is doing. Also with your school visits a power point presentation might go down well but nothing will beat a good video film as kids would much rather watch that than do sums anyday. Don't be worrying about the questions, they'll come thick and fast. There's hundreds of things you could do to keep them entertained and I for one applaud you for wanting to keep the sport alive, well done.

Hope your getting better Billy, have a happy new year yourself and focus on getting strong.

Answered via p.m.

Thanks for the wishes, looking forward to a good 2009. We're proud to be sponsors of the race Ian, its a great concept and one that we're excited to be taking part in.

Thankyou Franny, every little helps and your gesture very much appreciated. Look forward to seeing you in 2009 as with all our Scottish customers, some of who we'll be seeing on the 7th/8th. A quick update to the intitial post is that Scotland, (as far as Aberdeen) Devon, Wales, Manchester, Nottinghamshire and the Newcastle areas are all looking good to be satisfied if the numbers keep growing as they are, it will be the same with most destinations en-route to these main destination points. Our apologies go out to those in certain areas who we currently aren't able to satisfy due to low numbers however we can't run at a loss as I'm sure our customers will understand. Happy new year to all, and on behalf of the Pigeon Tracker team we look forward to serving you all in Sport through 2009.

Pigeon Tracker's Scotland delivery and pickup services are on target for the 6th, 7th and 8th of January with most other areas of the UK covered dependant on numbers per area. Should we not be able to reach the required target needed to at least break even on delivery we will notify the customer directly as this can happen and we would not wish to let anyone down. Prices have remained the same as last year being £30 up to 4 birds with £2 per bird thereafter. Boxes are free up to 4 with any additional boxes being 50 pence per unit if required during pickup. Customers are encouraged to pre-order boxes prior to pickup and delivery to avoid courier delays in what is likely to be a hectic time as we adapt to the demize of amtrak. With last season's experience in mind we saw that some fanciers were having to pay up to 95p for their boxes from local pet stores so have decided to get the boxes manufactured in bulk so that we can pass on the savings to the customer. As you will see, we've managed to get the boxes down to as low as 40 pence per unit which is a considerable saving on what's currently available. To avoid confusion the branded version are boxes that carry the Pigeon Tracker brand and not for the ability to have your own breeder/courier brand put on the box. We hope this helps and look forward to serving you in sport.

Ditto and a very merry xmas to you and yours.

The problem is that your one of the good minority at the moment. People like you will never need to worry about deliveries because of your flexability but most can't or won't accomodate to the level you can/do. There's also a misconception about holding lofts which needs to be discussed. Take stray birds for example, if you keep them at the destination they're to be recovered from then that loft itself effectively becomes a 'holding loft' and you run equal risk of cross contamination if not more as some lofts aren't looked after as much as others. With regards to organised holding lofts if enough investment and thought is put into them then they can be designed to prevent cross contamination by using lots of methods including air conditioning systems which mean each bird breaths thier own air. Seperate water systems to take away paratyphoid, the list goes on. Respect has to go out to you for your flexability though its people like you that might just make this transition from amtrak to multi track a little easier.

I'm sure that if they only have four members they'd be more than happy to expand their catchment area to accomodate you, numbers is what every club needs. Good luck and merry xmas.

That's a difficulty couriers face when delivering Julia, who do you pass the toll fee on to? Look at London for example, some roads have gone up to £8 to go on if you have to use them. Even the M25 charges you from the Kent end, then there's the M6 toll road which can be another £10 or near as can be. That said my major worry is for London and surrounding areas including the car park, especially with several lanes closed new season which is one of the topics that should be approached in v near future. Its not always going to be about tolls but time as you can be on some of these roads for the best part of a day with no chance of rescue from another van. :o

Two answers to your questions Duncan, one to make sure that those minority such as JakJak, Navigator and other important customers who do use the forum can keep in touch with me. Second answer, why do we watch the forum? For the same reason you do, because we can and because we choose to, sure you haven't a problem with that? Nos da ich i. And a merry xmas btw.

Its Jamie, Duncan, and unlike you I don't spend most of my day on here posting. With the permission of Richard I have staff watching the site for us and answering p.m's. And nobody said the forum was irrelevant to my business except you, read my words, I posted this.... "Most of your customers won't come from forums, truth is most don't know what a forum is and therefore you won't get the whole picture of their needs until you start working with them." This forum is a valuable asset but as I said it is genuinly not used by a massive majority of fanciers thus the whole picture of the fanciers needs won't be painted. Hope that's a little clearer. To FrankDooman, I couldn't agree more.

Hi Julia, have sent you a p.m regarding the dedicated forum being set up for the couriers to discuss the networks that have already been developed and what other steps we need to take to make it even more efficient. All couriers except those that carry dirty goods with pigeons will be invited to join. In response to your first post you'll find that some expect the impossible, many expect the improbable but the true fancier with common sense will understand that Amtrak aren't here any more (thank god) and will work with you to get their birds from A to B. Most of your customers won't come from forums, truth is most don't know what a forum is and therefore you won't get the whole picture of their needs until you start working with them. That's no dismissing the good members on here in any way, most are very good people who can and do help a lot.

Congratulations to all four of you as far as I'm concerned because you've all contributed equally but in different ways. Your all winners.

I agree, there should be no protecting of the courier who did this job, (it wasn't me that's for certain). So that's one down, how many to go?