well gareth have a look at most if not all these so called ets traps ,the pad is before the bob wires , so in my opinion , which im entitled to , is not in the confindes of the loft.AS vincent has said the bird lands runs towards the trap ,stops at the bob wires , and for whatever reason shy's away before ENTERING THE LOFT ,but with ets it has already been registered as being clocked , but it is sitting on the loft roof sunning its self , and also as vincent say's it PROBABLY does'nt matter at 500 + miles , i tell you what if a bird beat me at these races and was timed by ets i would want it checked (that the pad was inside the loft)when the bird was verified, and if not SORRY THE BIRD WOULD BE DISQUALIFIED END OF STORY. as i have already stated some of my mates have ets and have been told by mr bald (UNICON REP)that the ets pad can be on the landing board as long as its inside the plumb line from front of roof,ie overhang, he's telling fanciers thats the bird home/TIMED.(WRONG). SHOULD BE INSIDE THE LOFT .