that last post owen is perfect mate, most if they get them for nowt will race them till they drop , but if they spend £100-£200 on a bird they wont race, the youngsters race very lightly and all through their lifes the birds wont go because thats off my such and such birds , your freebie will go no matter what. a guy in my club did the same , i gave him birds out of my stock birds , the words he said as he left , i think i will go and kill everthing ive got after seeing what you have , never did thank god , i gave him a full brother to my national winner, and one off a pair of w.kinner & son edinburgh birds