Totally understand your reply Tam . But when I started in the racing pigeon sport and big van Hannah took me under his wing . He probably at that time had as many winners from 350-400 mls as any cvnt. But very few of these pigeons scored from over the water.. For me 1 or 2 is still too many and has killed the fed open races. Don't know about the fanciers that consistently time in birds from across the pond . As I'm not one of them . But for me a bird has got to fly over the channel to be recognised as a national pigeon