lot of good points on this thread some good distance guys with basically the same ideas but remember guys most have distance familys that have been in your kneck of the woods for years and have been trained /raced to these methords in my opinion king billys and jimmy,s methords very simular these are ones i will use with my distance y/ings if they cant do down to the coast on the day in desent weather then the bin could well be full JMO