jimmy white

i see in the cage and aviery,,,,,many species have been reported with infection, including,canaries, budgies, mynahs, parrots, touracos, poultry and sea birds ducks and geese may commonly carry the virus without showing clinical signs

would i be right in saying that , during the war,, they shot hawks, to save the pigeons carrying important messages, so much so that the hawks became endangered, so after the war,they were actually protected . well i would think this would be fair enough, the problem is this law still stands 60 years after the war . i think the hawks are beautifull birds, i also like all animals and birds, but if the game keepers were allowed to do their jobs properly, they would keep all animal and bird life in harmony,and lets face it these people, know the countryside inside out

shadow, theres plenty goshawks around the borders, i stayed in kelso, and wittnessed many attacks on mine at that time . about 7 years ago. iknow for a fact that andrew agnew the inland national winner, is demented with them, he stays in the outskirts of kelso

ill shock every one this time and i agree with all the interesting posts above, ;D ;D ;D only one thing [sorry terry , seven seas c. l. o. is in clear glass bottles,but to be fair i think it should be in dark bottles :) ] and because we get vit d from the sun., i should think the chemists would sell a fair bit of c l o this year. i take a mouthfull, [sorry thats too much] i meant to say a ladel full every day,[ ;D thats less ;D ] for medical reasons, great article kicked off with speckled. top marks.

i would put the late breds out , just to get used to the surroundings and area, if you kept them in to next year ,you would have more chance of losing them from the loft

hi doostalker , trust me to get that one fired at me ;D ;D ;D a direct son off a channel winner, would mean a son, bred off a winning pigeon, that had won flying the channel,,, direct,,, meaning, not a grandson or a great grandson, but a son, i.e simpler to say,,,, this pigeon is a son off the first open rennes, winner. or this pigeon is a daughter, off the first open nantes winner. etc..etc ;D ;D ;D in a way it is a kind of sales gimmic ,,,, DIRECT son , sells better than a son, but their just the same thing [or daughter off course] if youve either or ither, ill have a pair ;)

good luck to you speedbird,,,ive been browzing through a lot of differant articles , posts etc,, im looking at shadows, i dont know him, but feel he talks a lot of sense in all his posts, its worth looking through his posts, to me he makes alot of sense

my goodness me , that was some article on vits [ and i hate to admit it a female at that :) :)only kidding. i think you have done an exellent job speckled, and obviously, put a lot of work in to it. only problem i have now ,is my earlier question, do pigeons store vit c, according to speckled, she has pointed out that vit c cant be stored, but as wim peters says [exellant book] they manufacture it themselves. im left a wee bit confused now [ easy for me]as to why we give them vit c,. if they cant store it i understand why we give them it, but if they manufacture it themselves , surely that means we dont have to give them it att all, im left a wee bit puzzled, one thing i can say is that i used to give pure lemon juice mixed in with yeast soaked in depurative, dried and given to the birds on return from a hard flight plus electrolytes[ or rehydration salts as speckled calls it] i found that by using this system the birds definately recovered quicker . would my conclusion be that they cant store it, but manufacture it, but during a race they cannot manufacture it as quick as they are using it up, therefor thats why we give them vit c as part of their recovery, only a thought

i take your point on ,,,mismanagement,,, on bbc race, but mis management can be put right, ie learning from our mistakes, but as far as the raptor issue, we cannot seem to put that right , i agree there are places where they are more densly populated, but we have to face facts that these birds are multiplying and therefor need more space that is why they are all over now,,, and still multipllying,,why do the rspb not admit this, instead of comming out with nonsense that is in fact an insult to our intelligence

thanks lads and lassies for info on chat, i also thought it was me or my computer[ which it usually is.] ;D ;D ;D :)

BRUNO I REALY UNDERSTAND YOUR THINKING AND YOUR WELL MEANING BUT IM AFRAID TO SAY IT WOULDNT MATTER WHAT RACE ROUTE WAS TAKEN , THE SITUATION WOULD BE THE SAME, THE SIMPLE MATTER IS THE HAWKS ARE WIDE SPREAD OVER THE WHOLE COUNTRY, THEY ARE BREEDING AND OF COURSE THE MORE THEY BREED THE MORE THEY MULTIPLY, AND THE MORE THEY MULTIPLY, THE MORE ROOM THEY NEED [ I WONDER IF DUNCAN ORR HIFEN EWING KNOWS THEIRIN CORNWALL ,NESTING ON TRURO CATHEDERAL, ALSO ON THE FORTH BRIDGE, THATS APART FROM THE M74 CORRIDOR]

ON YOUR LAST POINT BRUNO I AGREE WITH YOU THIS WAS QUITE SHOCKING , ONLY A HANDFULL OF BIRDS TIMED IN , IN THAT RACE IN RACE TIME, BUT BAD AS IT WAS HOW MANY TIMES HAS THAT HAPPENED SINCE PIGEON RACING STARTED. ALLTHOUGH THIS WAS BAD, I WILL ADDMIT IT JUST DOESNT HAPPEN MUCH AT ALL . THANK GOODNESS, OUT OF THE THOUSANDS OF RACES IN OVER A HUNDRED YEARS , THIS IS JUST NOT A COMMON OCCURANCE , MISTAKES CAN AND WILL HAPPEN, BUT AT THE SAME TIME I CANNOT SEE WHAT IT HAS TO DO WITH THE POST ON HAWKS , AND THE DRIVELL, RSPB SPECIALIST MR DUNCAN ORR-EWING HAS COME OUT WITH.

YOUR MIDDLE PARAGRAPH , BRUNO, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR SAYING, ABOUT THE JOE PUBLIC, I AM MR JOE PUBLIC , I DO NOT RACE PIGEONS, AND MANY OTHER JOE PUBLICS AROUND ME , NEIGHBOURS ,ETC CAN ALL SEE THAT WE HAVE LESS AND LESS SONGBIRDS WE CAN EVEN SEE THE SPARROW HAWK KILLING THEM , ESPECIALY WHERE I AM , IN THE COUNTRY , SO REALLY THE JOE PUBLIC THAT TAKE INTEREST AND SEE THIS, KNOW WHATS HAPPENING , THE PROBLEM IS THAT MOST OF THE JOE PUBLICS , THAT WORK IN TOWN , DONT KNOW WHATS HAPPENING, AND THATS MY POINT THEY NEED TO KNOW

BRUNO ,WHILE I RESPCT WHAT YOU SAY THE ARTICLE I READ WAS NOT IN THE SCOTSMAN, BUT , THE CAGE AND AVIARY.AND TO MY MIND , THE RSPB EXPERT MR DUNCAN ORR HIFEN EWING IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG IN ALL HIS WISDOM, FIRST OF ALL HE SAID FANCIERS FAILED TO TAKE PRECAUTIONS AGAINST RAPTOR ATTACKS NONSENSE.... THEY HAD BEEN GIVEN INSTRUCTIONS NOT TO USE RACE ROUTES ALONG THE M74 CORRIDER,,DOES MR DUNCAN ORR HIFEN EWING KNOW THAT , THAT IS WHERE THE PERIGRINES ARE, JUST ALONG THE M74 CORRIDER NOWHERE ELSE,, NONSENSE.... HE GOES ON TO SAY ,KEEP YOUR LOFTS AWAY FROM WOODLAND COVER NONSENSE,,, IM SURE HE KNOWS PERIGRINES CAN FLY DISTANCES .HE THEN GOES ON TO SAY PUT MODEL OWLS ON YOUR ROOFS, NONSENSE...THIS DOES NOT WORK.... AND THE BEST OF ALL, JUST RACE PIGEONS WITH WHITE RUMPS WELL WELL WELL, I CAN JUST IMAGINE A LIBERATION OF WHITE RUMPED PIGEONS , ALL GETTING HOME AND THE PERIGRINES STARVING

agree with posts above ,, cider vinegar is good for sour crop and acts quickly, but the old garlic takes a bit of beating for many reasons, if given regularly, the good properties of garlic, are allmost end less and far to much for my one finger to print, but seriously , it is so cheap, for what it does its unbeleivable

if your putting ybs on darkness , i would rather pair up middle of feb,and being a mean scot would save feeding these for two months if paired in december, if their put on darkness system theyll still have a full body moult and hold there flights.but remember these parents will cast flights after sitting on their second round of eggs and will be past there best when the longer races come along , unless of course their put on widowhood, and only sit second round 8 days for the distance races iwould ,now, put them together in april, and race these natural, i have tried both ways in the past and found that these widowhood cocks paired early, i could get them if they hadnt been raced hard previously, and in fairly fast races, but when it came to the real hard stuff , a natural , paired in april, was preffered,, but as in pigeon racing , there are allways exeption to the rule

p.s and according to the rspb only race pigeons with white rumps, they dont eat these???????well ive heard every thing now

while i agree with most of brunos points, but i would ask any pigeon fancier that has actually seen a perigrine, or sparrowhawk, for that matter ,dive in to a batch of say 100 pigeons, it may kill one , but as for the rest, well i can only say you have to see it to beleive it. its not the one thats killed. its the rest, theyll fly in to anything, trees ,wires cars, and yes even brick walls , afew years ago ive seen this happen with my own birds , released approx 50 ybs , one killed, half them never seen again, and lifted about a dozen out of the fir trees on the hill about a mile away, broken legs, gashed so badly that they had ,had it and the few that did make it home , do you think they would forget that, im sure they would bypass that area comming home, making it a longer way home for them in a race, just maybe to be struck again. i handed in to the shu secy at that time about a hundred rings found by game keepers from the north of england , along with the letters from the game keepers as to their whereabouts and i can assure you they werent just from the m 74 as the rspb said , they were from the east right to the west .can you see that the rspb chap is actualy blaming us????put up owls ,,, nonsense, their all on the m74 nonsense//// does this EXPERT expect us to beleive him i for one dont as i have even seen a hawk kill a pigeon beside the owl ,,, cmonn who is he kidding, not me anyway

agree with speckled , hammering will not upset them , in fact the opposite , if you just mess around in the loft with slow and deliberate movements as much as you can , drop a tit bit now and again, even a little rice or seeds, and gradually build up their confidence and yours ,theyll eventualy come round, and when their breeding next year you will find theyll calm down best of luck to you, patience is a virtue, and im sorry to have to admit it , but woman are better than men for that,,,,,,ouch that hurt me to say that, ;D ;D ;D :)

glad to here your pet pigeon is a lot better and im sure youll have learned quite a bit from all the posts, i would tend to go along with bruno ,in his post above, which is a well put article for a beginner ,, about giving a bird a tablet , if you havent given one before can be quite tricky and might be better with two of you doing this job, but if kept in the right conditions, should very seldom need done, good luck to you and your bird anyway

MY BROTHER IS DAVID ,IS OF THE TOP BREEDERS OF CANARIES , HAS RECENTLY HAD A SPARROW HAWK ENTER THE WINDOW OF HIS 100 STRONG CANARY TEAM, AND MOST OF THE BIRDS FRIGHTENED ,SO MUCH HE WONDERS IF NOW THEY WILL BE JARRED IN THE MOULT, OFF COURSE THIS WINDOW IS NETTED, BUT THIS SPARROW HAWK ,WAS STILL PERSISTING TO CLING TO THE WIRE, SO NOW HE HAS A FROSTED GLASS WINDOW, THIS HAS SORTED THE PROBLEM WITH HIS CANARIES, BUT THE PROBLEM NOW IS, THIS SPARROW HAWK IS NOW KILLING , THE SMALL SONG BIRDS , HE TAKES PLEASURE IN FEEDING IN HIS GARDEN, I GAVE HIM TWO OF THESE OWLS , DUNCAN ORR OF THE RSPB RECOMMENDS, AND CAN ASSURE YOU THIS MAKES ,NO DIFFERANCE WHATSOEVER

QUEENS PIGEON TRADGEDY. A PRIZE PIGEON FROM THE QUEENS AWARD WINNING LOFTS. AT SANDRINGHAM IS BELEIVED DEAD, AFTER IT FAILED TO RETURN FOM A 15 MILE TRAINING FLIGHT. THE BIRD WAS IN TRAINING FOR A 238 MILE RACE FROM ST. MALO IN BRITTANY TO MALVERN IN WORCESTERSHIRE. THE 1003 ENTRANCE FEE FOR THE RACE , WHICH HAS A TOP PRIZE OF 120003, HAD BEEN PAID, BUT THE BIRD FAILED TO APPEAR,AND IS BELEIVED TO HAVE FALLEN VICTIM TO A SPARROWHACK. THE QUEEN, WHO IS PATRON OF PIGEON ASS, MAINTAINS A FLOCK OF ABOUT 160 BIRDS AT HER LOFT AT SANDRINGHAM. HER LATE MOTHER WAS ALSO A KEEN PIGEON FANCIER. THE ROYAL LOFTS WAS ORIGINALLY ESTABLISHED WHEN KING LEOPOLD OF THE BELGIANS GAVE SOME RACING PIGEONS TO ALBERT EDWARD, LATER KING EDWARD VII.

FALCON THREAT TO PIGEON RACING. PIGEON RACING IS AT RISK OF DYING OUT IN SCOTLANDWITHIN 20 YEARS IF THE NUMBERS OF BIRDS OF OF PREY NORTH OF THE BORDER CONTINUES TO INCREASE UNCHECKED, ACCORDING A LEADING PIGEON FANCIER. DR. PHILIP LYNCH,THE CHAIRMAN OF THE S,H,U, SAVE OUR SPORT FROM RAPTERS GROUP, HAS CALLED FOR A CHANGE IN LAW TO ALLOW INCREASING NUMBERS OF RAPTORS TO BE KILLED. THE NUMBER OF SPARROWHACKS AND PERIGRINE FALCONS, WHICHARE CLAIMED TO FEED ON PIGEONS ARE AT RECORD LEVELS AND AN ESTIMATED 120,000 RACING BIRDS ARE BEING KILLED IN SCOTLAND EVERY YEAR. THE SITUATION IS SO BAD THAT THE RPRA ASS. HAS LOST 2,000 MEMBERS AND THE SHU.300 SINCE THE START OF THE YEAR. THERE ARE THOUGHT TO BE 4,200 PERIFGRINE FALCONS AND 120,OOO SPARROWHALKS LIVING IN THE U.K. WITH EACH EATING BETWEEN 2 AND 3 BIRDS A DAY.DR. LYNCH SAID ,,THIS IS A PROBLEM WHICH IS GETTING WORSE.ITS A TERRIBLE WORRY BECAUSE, IF NOTHING IS DONE ABOUT THE UNPRECEDENTED NUMBERS OF RAPTORS, WE WILL SEE A MASSIVE DROP IN THE NUMBERS OF FANCIERS IN 10 YEARS AND WE WONT HAVE A SPORT IN 20 YEARS. DR. P. LYNCH, WHO HAS BEEN RACING PIGEONS FOR ALLMOST 60 YEARS ADDED THAT HE HAD LOST HALF HIS BIRDS,,,,, THIS YEAR. RAPTOR NUMBERS HAVE ROCKETED, WHICH HAS BECOME A HUGE PROBLEM FOR OUR SPORT. ,,,,,,, BUT RSPB RAPTOR, SPECIALIST DUNCAN ORR_-EWING SAID THAT INDEPENDANT RESEARCH SHOWED THAT FANCIERS HAD FAILED TO TAKE PRECAUTIONS AGAINST RAPTOR ATTACKS. PERIGRINES ARE BEING MADE A SCAPEGOAT HERE AND THE FANCIERS REACTION IS JUST GO AND KILL SOMETHING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM, HE SAID. IF THEY WERE TO KILL A RAPTOR, THEN, IT WOULD JUST BE REPLACED A FEW DAYS LATER, WITH ANOTHER ONE. THEY HAVE BEEN GIVEN,,,,,ADVICE,,,, SUCH AS NOT TO USE RACE ROUTES ALONG THE M74 CORRIDER WHERE THERE ARE LOTS OF PERIGRINES, TO KEEP TH THEIR LOFTS AWAY FROM WOOD LAND COVER,, TO PUT,,,,, MODEL OWLS,,,,,ON THEIR ROOFS ,AND TO USE PIGEONS WITH A WHITE RUMP, BECAUSE RESEARCH SHOWS ,THEY ARE LESS LIKELY TO BE ATTACKED, BUT OUR EXPERIENCEIS THAT FANCIERS ARENT DOING THIS. MAY I POLITELY SUGGEST THAT MR DUNCAN ORR- EWING DO A LITTLE BIT MORE RESEARCH,, THE RSBP ARE A RESPONSBLE ORGANIZATION, AND SHOULD REALLY TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT, THESE REMARKS,,, AND RECTIFY THEM, JAMES WHITE

AS YOU HAVE PROBABLY GATHERED IN THE PAST, I ALLWAYS LIKED TO TRY THINGS FOR MY SELF, ,I HAVE IN THE PAST TRIED ONE SECTION WITH ELECTROLYTES AND ONE SECTION WITHOUT [sAME RACE 200 MILES HEAD WIND]AND FOUND THE ONES WITH THE ELECTROLYTES RECOVERED QUICKER, SO THAT WAS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME, I HAVE ALSO REPEATED THIS, JUST TO MAKE SURE

better to win the race, then you can do the salts SUMMERSALTS ;D ;D ;D