Michael J Burden

Mealy white bar. Not a very good picture.

This is what I am likely to get next year.

I look at the JAM THELEEN birds and the majority seem to be reds. I have not yet seen any website or article of their birds etcbut it appears reds are being being paired to reds in all the lofts where I have seen them. Those recessive traits which you mention are if there generally hidden because they are recessive. By pairing 2 birds together who both carry them then the ybs can become that odd colour, inbreeding usually does bring it out if there. Sorry if I am teaching you to suck eggs.

I used to keep rodents and this is what happened when I put up vaponer fly killers in the room where they are housed. It caused the rodents to become sterile until it was removed. Whether the chemicals in IVERMECTIN are or do the same thing I do not know.

Your grizzle looks like the not so common sort of TIGER grizzle which is different to the usual grizzle we see. What type of breed is it?

According to the owner it is a new gene and it is called a DRIZZLE.. Vallance lofts I have not got my funny coloured one yet when I do I will get a good picture of it so you can see it.

This is a new colur mutation or gene which gives a different appearance tot he red / blue /brown. It is newly discovered in the USA and I understand a similar gene has been found in Europe so it may find its way into the racing flocks soon. It is called a drizzle, what do you think?

I have had them and good ones of any colour are hard to find. They looked well and flew as good or as bad as the next bird. I had a silver yearling do the Tarbes in 2007, it was a faster race but some of my other entrants failed to get home. I think if you have a stock loft and you breed one from proven stock to keep that gene alive in your gene pool the stock loft is a good place to put it. If I had a stock loft I would put them in one. If you mix up some of the rarer genes you can get some very fancy looking birds. Mealies with white bars which I am trying for next year. On race day though I am intersted in seeing the first bird home and colour does not figure in it. I do however have more reds than blues and next year will give my blues in the main to a friend so year on year will have no blues or cheqs.

Trevor Glover had them and raced them to 700miles and they won at that distance. The reason I believe why they are in the minority even more so are that fanciers go for the in strain. If that in strain is lacking in none blue birds then they are noticable by their absence. I know that grizzles for instance are amking a comeback, if someone gets a few top results with a reconized breed then they will get even more popular. In the club where I send the only none blue birds belong to me ;D The trouble with breeding recessive birds together to get a cock of that colur can be the lack of racing selection and obviously that means sometimes poor racers in place of colour

There are only 3 colours. They are dominant through to the recessive starting from red (ash) then blue and then brown. Cock birds carry 2 colour genes, if they carry the one red gene they are red. if they carry the blue gene are blue not thr red otherwise it will be a red. if both colour genes are carried brown, which is similar to silver blue and often called dun. Hen birds carry one colour gene so what ever it is it is that colour. There are many other genes which are callled monifiers. These alter one of the basic colours and produces different 'colours' that we see such as yellow, silver, chocolate opal or blacks plus others. For a cock to be yellow it needs to have at least one red red gene. Attached to that gene and the other it will require 2 for dilute. If not it will just be a red who can produce silver blue and red hens in the nest. Now to put a spaner in the works, especially as you are in the USA there are other genes which cause birds to be yellow looking. The actual colour can be blue but the genes are pale, dilute and extreme dilute. It can get very complicated. The best website to explain all this with pictures is Ron Huntley http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/yellow.html

Glassfeather I clicked on your link and it took me nowhere then cashed my compter. Try this link for the best genetic site on the net, my view anyway. http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/

Nice looking bird. You need to try her if you have no others back to other sons. She should first of all be paired to a red who has 2 genes for red and not one red and blue, these generally look like red with black splashes. Now keep the cocks and pair them to red hens, one back to mother. Some of the red cocks will have the gene for dilute, not all. If you see any come out of those pairings you can be sure that cock has that gene. Pair that one to its mother. This was you can get a number of yellows, some hens and maybe a cock. The yollow effect is reciessive which is why it apears to skip generations. Alternatively you could drop Laurie an email, she is in the USA and has some fine specimens of that colour and sells them too. Her e-mail is okemats@sbcglobal.net Check out her photo album called: "Oshaben Trentons" http://www.PictureTrail.com/gid6337817&pathID=2033848

The trouble is all this, talk on here is interesting but does not get anything sorted. You need a thread where new ideas can be aired and a new or old rule ammended through a well written propsition which can be submitted through the correct channels. As has been realised by many of the contributors there are many arm chair whingers who do just that, whinge. On Pigeon chat I started a thread to address this but most have no contructive ideas and are happy to moan about things. I suspect even if a new organisation was set up to give the RPRA run for there money the arm chair whingers would still be vocal. It is a fact of life that no matter how good things are in the country people always find something to moan about. PS things are not right from what I have read with the RPRA but as many say it is ours so why not look at the rules, submit rules for the better and change things in stead of just moaning about it. PPS I can moan for England but it only does one thing, makes you unhappy and gets up others noses.

http://www.pigeon-chat.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18343 This is the thread, takes about 30 minutes to get through.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/karenjames Anyone who has not heard Karen James has been suspended from the RPRA for contributing to a thread on another site. If you have not already done so and wish to support her click the above link and vote, it only takes a minute. What she wrote was this.............

They do have the right credentials and a bargain by the sounds of it. I have been watching these on the EPS auction.

What is the definition of a PLEB. I know what a FLUB is, fat lazy useless, but a PLEB beats me ;D

There is nowt wrong being a numpty as long as you are balanced and base your input on facts not madeup ones. I think this is too serious.

Sorry Chrisss I will refrane from the diversion some have alterior motives. ;D

Thanks for the good coments Dicky, but I am laughing out so loud by this one, not Chrisss misfortune but that everthing that goes around comes around. RChen and me do not see eye to eye, but being of the gentler persusion that she is that is no surprise.

our love for each other is mutual. ;D RChen get a life.

Well ine was 59th and I have money carried over and I will be happy at that. As to the TV he did make himslf look silly but this showed that he was passionate allbeit a greedy man. Like many fanciers and folk I come across everyday. Give him a little credit he has come from nothing to a sucessful businessman. Roll on to next year this has been the worst year in my memory of pigeon racing This is the last time, I promise, that I look at or contribute to this thread, all the best see you at the winter events, maybe,.

I know him too well I am afraid. He is on pigeomland and they love him, staffsfox. Had birds from him, one a suposed breeder of the Willy Thas strain until I located the breeder who informed me it was a D'Hondt, I said **** and he said No D'Hondt. ;D I dont think we need that sort of language just in case you have missed it something for you to read http://forum.pigeonbasics.com/m-1199732139/

Put the report on before I saw it had already gone on. Chrisss, I am amazed that you think it is odd that that he calls some scum. I think he has been very restrained in the way he has written about all the mis informants and trouble makers and name calling of him and his race. He could have been more vocal. If he is caled down he has a right to reply in the same way as it was put. I am sure many on here will jump onthe band wagon and shout me down, and they will be upset wih the word scum :-/

The report for those unable to find it:- First of all let me say sorry for the delay in this report but I have had to think long and hard before I put pen to paper. Now in consultation with my family, partners, and local club I have our new direction set in my mind, but before we talk of the future let me recap on 2008. As you all know we had a great series of hot spot races and were bang on target with over 50% of the birds making it to the final race. All who attended the marking were in agreement that the birds were in great condition with over a thousand birds in perfect feather and just a hundred or so that were a bit loose in the body feather but none at all in a bad moult. Two of the birds were found to have small cuts from hawk strikes and I put a couple of stitches in these as they were not to bad and I know that Jim was not to keen on the idea of these birds going to the race but I spoke to the owners and as usual they wanted them sent! After the security marking attended by this years security observer who was Jim Dyer a lay preacher and pillar of his local community as well as a life long pigeon flyer and local reporter, the birds were then placed back in the loft and fed and watered Jim then sealed the loft up at 7pm and handed over to the night watchman and convoyer, who slept at the lofts.7am Saturday Jim arrived and broke the seal to the loft and the birds were then again fed and watered and at 11am the birds were loaded onto the transporter and then sealed into the crates by Jim. The journey north was totally uneventful and they arrived in Edinburgh at 8pm and the birds were watered next morning the birds were given more water and made ready to liberate. At the home end our race advisers were surfing all the weather web sites and consulting widely, the consensus was that the country was split by weather down the middle from Scotland to the south coast of England and the forecast was that from the middle of the country out to the west it would be dry good visibility with the odd rain shower however from the middle of the country over to the east coast there would low cloud mist and some heavy rain showers, winds in all areas of the north would generally easterly or north east and west or south west in the south. With this in mind our thoughts were that if we liberate in an east wind this should send them down the west side of the country into the decent weather and get home without to much trouble this decision was taken on a unanimous vote by the 6 people involved, and Jim was asked to cut the seals at 0720 ready for a 0730 liberation. All 20 of the guys that were attending Hopetoun house to watch the liberation were more than impressed with the condition of the birds and the liberation in which all 1176 birds cleared south in very short time, even though a batch of about 100 did come back over the site 10 minutes later. the whole thing was video taped as usual by the convoyer, and while Jim and the assistant convoyer/driver went home in the transporter the convoyer himself caught a plane from Edinburgh to Cardiff airport and the film of the liberation was being shown on the big screens to the assembled crowd of 450 waiting in the marquee just after noon and it was plain to see that it was a good liberation in good conditions. This obviously prompted the crowds to think this was going to be a very easy race as the guess the time competition was flooded by tickets guessing 5, 6 and 7 hours very few thinking it would be more than that, in fact less than ten people put down more than 10 hours, the eventual winning guess being 14 hours odd that was from a woman non fancier from the west country then one from Lee Jones a non fancier of 13 hours and Poor old Louise Draper from Cardiff who in fact wanted to guess 15 hours but her fancier husband told her not to be so daft and made her change it to less than ten hours, the reason I mention this is because of the hundreds of experienced flyers who were at the race had all seen the weather forecasts and just about every one of them was expecting conditions to be plenty good enough to provide a good race and were betting their money to say so with predictions of an easy race and even though 6 people made the decision to liberate this was endorsed by at least another 20 in Edinburgh and another 450 in Cardiff. However as we all now know what followed was a very bad race with no birds on the day it soon became clear to me that the birds for some crazy reason had gone down the eastern side of the country into the worst of the weather which by the way was a lot worse than what was forecast including flash floods in Northumberland from late morning just about the time the birds would have got there if they took the eastern route. Anyway we are all pigeon flyers and sometimes you just get a very bad one when you just never saw it coming, who will ever forget the RPRA Centenary race! And this was one of those days. The poor boys in Galway did not get a single bird in race time up at the same time as us. As I said at the dinner on the night this means that everyone is still a potential winner and the birds with true grit will come second day to win this race. The loft was attended by 20 people overnight including our own security I arrived at first light by the time we had got the bacon rolls tea and coffee sorted out we had got nearly a hundred people waiting for the birds, then just before a quarter to eleven a lone blue pigeon dropped from the dead north and trapped to make itself a true hero in a very hard race and nice to say the owners Bill and Beryl Lewis were there to see it and take the many congratulations from the gathered crowd as well as the famous winners jacket, crystal glassware and trophy. This lovely couple are well known one loft flyers that have been around the world at the best one loft races, The winning bird that is truly bred for the job both parents are big winners in previous Europa classics! Second bird arrived 24 minutes later this was one for our Kuwait friends namely Nabeel Albaker who is an officer in the Kuwait army this was bred for him by Elimar, and has a pedigree full of long distance national winners this runner up is also the car winner Ace bird for best average all races 2008.these were followed throughout the day by another 27 valiant birds that had obviously seen a great deal of rain, eventually we had just 48 birds in race time, and the clock will be left on for at least a week, While others drift home. Obviously the RPRA rules say we can not pay prizes to the birds outside race time however we will give a credit in next years race to all the birds up to the one hundredth home to the same value of the prize allocated for that position. As per the rules all prizes will be reduced by one third as the published prizes are based on the loft being full at 1000 paid birds and 2000 reserves and as we all know the loft only had 660 paid birds plus reserves this is a simple calculation, as the race was less than two thirds full, we pay two thirds of the projected prize money that is exactly what has happened in previous one loft races flown by the RPRA itself as well as this years Emerald Classic and South west one loft races. Apart from the winners £30,000.00 which will be paid in full twenty thousand from the race and ten thousand from our sponsors Europa Auctions like the rest of the prizes this was not guaranteed but I personally have always said the winner of this race will get thirty grand no matter what and I will make sure that happens. That is 2008 out the way now for the future, It has always been our intention for this race to be a true test of a pigeon to sometimes push them to the limit in an effort to find true champions this is why we have chosen a very difficult race point at 312 miles to be the final test of the birds we are sent by our loyal customers each year, and even though the race has never been full we have paid the prizes in full thinking if we do that the race will be full next year but this has never happened and it may never happen so perhaps it is now time to make some changes and these are my proposals. As from 2009 the Europa classic will not be considered the final test of the birds you send us but just a stepping stone to the Europa 500 which will be. Europa Classic will still have the same race rules and entry fees and prize money as previous years, but it will be flown from Carlisle 240 miles and it will be flown on August bank holiday weekend and will be preceded by 5 hot spot races from Brough 200 miles Leyland 160 miles twice Whitchurch 100 miles and Ludlow 60 miles. We anticipate getting a big percentage of the bird's home from Carlisle which is a much easier race. These young birds can then be entered by their owners into the Europa 500 to be flown as old birds from 500 miles and this will be our new ultimate challenge for the birds we are sent to race, giving our long distance men a chance to shine. Obviously flown as old birds fully motivated into widowhood boxes it will be much easier to get a classic long distance performance from the birds. Also giving our customers year long entertainment from short middle and long distance races. Finally I would like to thank the many people who have phoned and e mailed with messages of support, of course hundreds of people had a great day out eating and drinking all day with a super atmosphere at the loft even with no birds on the day. Bill Lewis thinks it was a great race of course Beryl was reduced to tears of joy and all the other big money winners are pleased, those that did not get a bird are disappointed this we understand, and most of the guys who are down at the moment are already saying or well better luck next year because we will be having another go then. Nobody is more disappointed than me and the team. I was 100% sure we were going to get 600 birds home however that's racing, and perhaps we are pushing them to hard that's why we are making the changes we have outlined, please be aware this is very serious for us it is full time jobs on the line here for people who work hard and try their best for you. Indeed we have had very few complaints from our loyal customers who have seen many good races here at the Europa Classic, however you get knockers who have never been to the race and these numptys who hide in a chat room where any Tom, Dick or Darren can say any old rubbish that is no where near the truth need to be treated like the scum they are. Why the hell would I want to throw away all the birds when the auction money alone could be up to a hundred thousand pounds!!!!!! Any way roll on next year for the dawn of a new era. Best of luck to you all Derek Nicholls and all the Europa Classic/Europa 500 Team Very well written. I be first in the queue next year as I have already stated earlier in this thread where rumour and misiformation was rife.