diagree with u a lot i spent a good few bob on two familles of birds before i had the family that i have now i put a major amount of work into both of them these were well known respeced sprint based birds yes i won a few races but noting like im doing now and i went staight too the source for them birds they were good birds but wouldent have a hope of holding into what i have now same loft same feed the lot so the birds is what counts no mater what the distance ok they have to be done right yes but i reckon im even putting less work in now to get better results just what i have found u see im living 30 mile out of the way to be in the right positon have been in the top 5 in fed when no one in my area in top 50