Well Do / Should We?

[Roland]

change our views of these Distance and hard day racing?

 

The posts before the last two Scottish nationals was in regards A. the heat! and B. it should be in two parts!

Today does any one believe, think it would be fair to have taken from these fanciers and the gallantry of their' bird's merit!?

 

 

Does one really believe that noon liberations … allowing the sprint bird the prestige of winning via two sprint to middle distance combined races?

 

 

Now as I posted before, and no one replied … maybe wrong time to as such. I believe that April to August should be the time of these races. June up to say 250 - 300 miles tops.

This would have many other good credits as I posted.

But I believe whole heartedly that these races should continue, but not in Flaming June. The silly scenario of Holidays is a thing of the past... But to send in June for an extra 15 -20 minutes is in my opinion ludicrous to the utmost.

Moult easily controlled. - Many have stock lofts now a days any way. If not, then an little alteration at to the breeding season etc. would, could be simple to give our birds a far better - and deservingly so - racing.

 

Of course the same applies to North and south and East routes flown. the weather would be te same.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Roland

[Kyleakin Lofts]

Achieving the change at National level is where the difficulty lies.

 

If this happened, the Federations would follow suit.

 

Should the Unions become involved and dictate this?

Edited July 2, 2018 by Kyleakin Lofts

[paddymac]

Achieving the change at National level is where the difficulty lies.

 

If this happened, the Federations would follow suit.

 

Should the Unions become involved and dictate this?

Surely they would have to ballot their members before taking such a decision

[Roland]

Surely they would have to ballot their members before taking such a decision

 

True. then also it must be put to the grass routes who have the actual last say. Again I thing such sites as this can, and could and maybe should discuss and dictate their views.

Also I believe that a secret 'Hidden vote' should be allowed for ALL members! further that all votes counted by A. independent sauces or 4 overseers - 2 for those for and 2 for those against.

 

the simple truth is our race programs are as old as the year of DOT. Seasons have changed. Transport and holidays have changed.

day of when the 150.000 or more fanciers were dictated by such are well and truly are gone.

Time now surely, is to take the step of a 1000 miles to do justice for our birds. To stop forcing unnatural and marginal cruel aspects of our 25.000 so call sport men's pigeons. JMO

[paddymac]

True. then also it must be put to the grass routes who have the actual last say. Again I thing such sites as this can, and could and maybe should discuss and dictate their views.

Also I believe that a secret 'Hidden vote' should be allowed for ALL members! further that all votes counted by A. independent sauces or 4 overseers - 2 for those for and 2 for those against.

 

the simple truth is our race programs are as old as the year of DOT. Seasons have changed. Transport and holidays have changed.

day of when the 150.000 or more fanciers were dictated by such are well and truly are gone.

Time now surely, is to take the step of a 1000 miles to do justice for our birds. To stop forcing unnatural and marginal cruel aspects of our 25.000 so call sport men's pigeons. JMO

Wise words Roland

[Roland]

I'll ask another. Well a few related if I may.

If we / the fanciers today -- on the thesis of Hind sight and us learned and a mite cleverer etc. because of, would we still implicate the same set ups? More importantly the same race programmes! Indeed the same Breeding dates as of today ... knowing full well we could improve it dramatically FOR the better. That racing appropiate races in appropiate time? Would our lofts and system being more flexible regards the Race program... Rotation etc. Able to choose the races with the benefit of longer races in mind. Whilst still having the shorter and middle distance races where they belong being better for us ,,, and far, far better for the pigeons we love!

Personally I can't believe we start racing in April … I never did, and I often had a good swallow come the distance.

Mid - end May can, and should be the start. No races lost in that regards.

July to MID - END of September even would also cut the cost of the races, as young birds would be racing many time with the old birds.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Roland

[Roland]

Well outside of Kyleakin Lofts, whom I feel is a thinker, and Paddymac it looks like every one is happy with the sports set up and regime. Also happy with the race programme. I know folks don't like change. Also they become comfortable with habits.

Also, most like to settle in behind those that tickle the ears and let it go on as it is.

 

often said sadly the sport is in the state of 'Deep Apathy'. I wonder why.

 

Many times I seee the fickleness of our members. Puff and spout about this and that. Like 'Who's doing what about the B.O.P. problem ... Yet when some try to... they are shot down and beraggled ... yet amazingly they still moan on....

The Race controlles and smashes with the countless reasons why P.s. Never their fault, and then spout just what should have been and why! And so very much more.

When asked to put their hand up. To attend meetings etc. etc. the most flimsy, and often the most stupid excuses are put up why the didn't couldn't ... Oh yes and that goldern cobles of 'Well what's the use, THEY (dO YOU KNOW WHO 'THEY' ARE?) P.s. YOU! Yes you are others to them others.

So what's the use... the sports dying... I'll soon be gone etc. etc.

Yes reminds me of Apathy!

By the way just where are those voices who sent last week and moaned about the heat and that THEY shouldn't be let up etc. That we should appease the lesser birds and members and to hell with the genuine fanciers and the birds that would be robbed … Seems all is forgotten, and 'Well next year (different excuseS) for it will be BETTER! LOL.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Roland

[Roland]

Well, its says it all with a deafening silence eh!

 

 

I'll wager there will be the moans and groans etc. etc. galore about this and that again before long. Indeed would say that's a fact!

[fieldwalker]

Who is going to race old and ybs the same weekend?

Cost...more baskets...training

Available time..

Yes we have had some hot weather around the time of the longer races..this year..

[Kyleakin Lofts]

One of the factors that we have to bear in mind is natural. BOP go to nest around mid April, so we are training pigeons to have them fit for racing which starts around mid April. Lo and behold, just in time for hen BOP to fatten up before their long sit. We then race our YB's late July / August time when the BOP have their YB's on the wing and are teaching them to hunt. At this time they kill for fun, tossing their kill over the sky to teach how to catch before progressing onto full attacks. Instead of just the cock bird attacking, we have maw, paw and the kids all having a go.

 

How do we defeat nature? We never will, but we are able to circumvent it for a time.

 

Everyone races the same route and preferably the same race-points. This means there are no pigeons to eat on the other routes. The BOP on these other routes will hunt what they can, but will eventually move to our race routes. After a period of time, be it five or ten years, we change route this starving the overpopulated BOP once again. This should affect their numbers and also bring the general public to an awareness of the dwindling wild bird populations.

 

Start racing later, say mid-May, thus starving the sitting hen BOP prior to her long incubation time. This should eventually cause less fertile eggs in the nest and smaller broods due to lack of available feeding. The problem for us will be that the longer races have to be later and thus our elite pigeons will be racing while the BOP train their YB, but these pigeons will be fewer than a YB flock and also a bit more savvy in regards to dealing with the BOP. Again, this should cause a hit on the BOP population. When we race our YB's the young BOP will have fledged, but hopefully they will be looking for their own territories and there will be some infighting and starvation to reduce BOP numbers.

 

Why should we continue as we have in the past when we are no longer able to cull BOP as we once were able to do? We have the ability to change in an attempt to thwart nature, albeit for only a short time until nature adapts as it certainly will.

[Dooheed 5]

One of the factors that we have to bear in mind is natural. BOP go to nest around mid April, so we are training pigeons to have them fit for racing which starts around mid April. Lo and behold, just in time for hen BOP to fatten up before their long sit. We then race our YB's late July / August time when the BOP have their YB's on the wing and are teaching them to hunt. At this time they kill for fun, tossing their kill over the sky to teach how to catch before progressing onto full attacks. Instead of just the cock bird attacking, we have maw, paw and the kids all having a go.

 

How do we defeat nature? We never will, but we are able to circumvent it for a time.

 

Everyone races the same route and preferably the same race-points. This means there are no pigeons to eat on the other routes. The BOP on these other routes will hunt what they can, but will eventually move to our race routes. After a period of time, be it five or ten years, we change route this starving the overpopulated BOP once again. This should affect their numbers and also bring the general public to an awareness of the dwindling wild bird populations.

 

Start racing later, say mid-May, thus starving the sitting hen BOP prior to her long incubation time. This should eventually cause less fertile eggs in the nest and smaller broods due to lack of available feeding. The problem for us will be that the longer races have to be later and thus our elite pigeons will be racing while the BOP train their YB, but these pigeons will be fewer than a YB flock and also a bit more savvy in regards to dealing with the BOP. Again, this should cause a hit on the BOP population. When we race our YB's the young BOP will have fledged, but hopefully they will be looking for their own territories and there will be some infighting and starvation to reduce BOP numbers.

 

Why should we continue as we have in the past when we are no longer able to cull BOP as we once were able to do? We have the ability to change in an attempt to thwart nature, albeit for only a short time until nature adapts as it certainly will.

if you think it’s only Pigeons Percy eats your very much mistaken my friend !!

[Roland]

Who is going to race old and ybs the same weekend?

Cost...more baskets...training

Available time..

Yes we have had some hot weather around the time of the longer races..this year..

 

Not true. Old birds season would finish same time as Y/b's. Young Birds starting July … when Old birds distance races should start.

 

Further Costs: Training no difference than what you are doing now. (mind many don't train y/b birds today, but do as past proved , just race is as good as without) Also - can train O/b's and y/b's then together. OK obviously the young birds will leave the old birds behind … Another advantage would be the widowhood hens would be coming into their own for the all important distance races.

 

Talking of old birds http://www.sahpa.asn.au/archives/flyers/pryor.htm

 

1321 kms, is 820 miles

Edited July 4, 2018 by Roland

[Roland]

True Doohead … But if not better, then certainly not no worse. The Jury could be out on that in as much 'Would we gain better?

[Kyleakin Lofts]

if you think it’s only Pigeons Percy eats your very much mistaken my friend !!

 

I know it is not only pigeons that they eat and thus the reference to wild birds / songbirds.

 

The main point is that we have the ability to change what we do. Nature follows from that.

 

We know the situation we are in currently, we know that this situation was different in the past when culls of BOP were a regular occurrence. We also know that if we make the change it might only have a minimal effect, but it also might have a major effect and improvement to our racing.

 

If we don't try to do something, then things will remain the sme, however, we know that nature is "stealing the march" on us because the BOP problem is becoming worse.

[Dooheed 5]

Simple fact is if a Percy needs to feed there is an abundance of other species it will successfully survive on so changing racing times won’t make zero difference to They’re population or reduce strikes !! They are not going to curl up and die because we’re not racing our birds

[Kyleakin Lofts]

Simple fact is if a Percy needs to feed there is an abundance of other species it will successfully survive on so changing racing times won’t make zero difference to They’re population or reduce strikes !! They are not going to curl up and die because we’re not racing our birds

 

What are your thoughts for a solution?

[paddymac]

I know it is not only pigeons that they eat and thus the reference to wild birds / songbirds.

 

The main point is that we have the ability to change what we do. Nature follows from that.

 

We know the situation we are in currently, we know that this situation was different in the past when culls of BOP were a regular occurrence. We also know that if we make the change it might only have a minimal effect, but it also might have a major effect and improvement to our racing.

 

If we don't try to do something, then things will remain the sme, however, we know that nature is "stealing the march" on us because the BOP problem is becoming worse.

Nothing to do with nature Andy, its the RSPB that has created this problem and will continue to do so

[Dooheed 5]

What are your thoughts for a solution?

Loose lips sinks ships

[Roland]

Loose lips sinks ships

 

Simple reality here Doohead, one thing for certain the rapture / B.O.P. may not be better- maybe will. But a certainty is - sadly with the RSPB backing ALL prey will be preyed upon and get worse.

But then whereas I welcome thoughts too in this regards The Race programme should be changed for entirely different reasons as stated. IF the B.O.P etc gets better that would be a most welcomed bonus surely.

[Roland]

Nothing to do with nature Andy, its the RSPB that has created this problem and will continue to do so

 

How true, and to take on a sheer money making machinery would take some doing.

In this regards we can't control the wind … just alter our sails.

 

But for better racing / youngsters and being costs effective we have at the moment the power to do. This we ought to too for the sheer love of our birds.

[Kyleakin Lofts]

Nothing to do with nature Andy, its the RSPB that has created this problem and will continue to do so

 

Correct. They have financial clout and the ears of politicians, so we will never sort that out.

 

Due to the assistance of the RSPB and the political machine, nature has the upper hand and, as I stated, "stole the march". The why's and wherefore's of how this situation has arisen don't really matter one little iota. They are simply facts. Facts that we have to face and, if we truly are a superior species, we have to look at ways to maintain our hobby and attempt to increase our pleasure while so doing. it is hardly pleasurable to see our pigeons fail to return from simple trainers, etc.

 

Perhaps, just perhaps, if we change some of the parameters, we may gain a short term benefit before having to change again.

[paddymac]

Whats the point of a short term benefit, its time fanciers did something to help themselves instead of complaining on social media, where nobody (joe public) doesn't care. Its up to us to help ourselves and tackle the bop problem cause no-one is going to do it for us.

[Dooheed 5]

Whats the point of a short term benefit, its time fanciers did something to help themselves instead of complaining on social media, where nobody (joe public) doesn't care. Its up to us to help ourselves and tackle the bop problem cause no-one is going to do it for us.

Amen Brother Amen ðŸ™

[Roland]

True Paddymac… Like Bilco tried... Beaten by the Pigeon Fanciers (Racing brigade).

 

True Paddymac. Had a syndicate on here, with some fancier birds support (Tumblers / tipplers).

 

Had a great quorum set up of well known names at that.

 

Had tremendous means of cash raising set up. -- Wouldn't cost any one on here a penny if not interested. O.K. sure they would reap any benefits that may have come by it.

Had a professional 'P.R. Firm with a think tank lined up. Infact 3. One a MP's. Remember when we asked all to send a leter to their M.P. I had a few answers from such. Because a M.P. has to by law reply to you!

Much that the RSPB does is illegal according to DAFRA! I know of only 3 of us that wrote them. they answers of truth coming back was crystal clear in that regards.

So why didn't it even get of the Road?! Pigeon fanciers - yes the racing fraternity caused a stink. Wrote to the RPRA, wrote letters BHW- which they had the good sense not to publish … That made them caused another stink!

 

Yes informed the RSPB! Scared that they would take Offence and make things worse … EEK!

 

Couldn't get it pass their' heads How and why a quorum is formed to set up in motion. Squeals of they should be voted in! Ok but didn't realise that that came AFTER a year or two running and set up. Wanted the NAMES, not to be kept secret but made known to all and sundry and THEN have a vote!!! geess you couldn't make it up. AND much more.

Most know of the dirty tricks that the RSPB get up to. Planting in bins which are remarkably seen by the appropiate sauces.

Yes make the names known first of all and out right, and pay for locks etc on lofts sheds and dustbins lol.

Of the general consesus is 'The wealthy Buisness fanciers should foot the bill. Be our spokes person etc. and they should form a 'Think tank' for us all lol.

[Roland]

Andy, with all due respect, the RSPB didn't points of views to the Pigeon Fraternity… Mishap as it was.

Bilco seized on that very quickly. Tried so very hard to get the fancy to acknowledge and have a say.

 

But their response then, as now was 'Well they will do what they want'. sad lol here. It was true... But if the fancy had balls and forgot the crap coming out of our leader mouth, and followed the likes of Bilco, they our voice would not only been heard, but still echoing.

Often what persuaded our so call 'Leaders' to dilly dally to the RSPB? My thoughts are / were 'Had they personally had some thing to gain … for it certainly wasn't regards the Fancy.

 

Remember with a RSPB man on Friday Night with Chris Evens taking the pee and laughing at a couple of fanciers. well contrived that!