MAN WITH NO BIRDS

[DOVEScot]

with respect is not the evidence in the hands of the police??? and why is nothing being done at club level..with overwhelming evidence???...why does he keep jumping in the cuckoo farm???...because if he is innocent stand up like a man and fight your corner!!!!!!!!........

 

I know if it was me that was wrongly accused then I would be fighting tooth and nail to prove my innocence if it mattered enough to prove it, then again if it was just sh** stirring I would take my dilligaf pills and just get on with my business as usual :-/

We all know the score, at times you will get the believers, the sceptics and the lynchers when the smoke rises even when the truth is put on plain view, just ask JFK :-/

[JAS]

with respect is not the evidence in the hands of the police??? and why is nothing being done at club level..with overwhelming evidence???...why does he keep jumping in the cuckoo farm???...because if he is innocent stand up like a man and fight your corner!!!!!!!!........

 

Thats why we are wanting a EGM called but told lastnight that the letter did not have the right amount of signatures. But we will be back with more. Don,t think he has got the bottle to come to the meeting. Once you see the evidence yourself that will convince you,s. Three guys whatched his loft together and i know who i would belive if i had to chose.  

 

PS Jock3 i will be there when ever it is mate.       PPS.  As for IB he knows the rules as he bores the tits of us all at the AGM every year so get your facts right about the things that post if your getting your info from some second hand persons.The man next door has pictures of the incdent  don,t think so as he can,t stick him aswell. FACTS Ian  FACTS

[Guest IB]

 

well well thats says it all if you have the proof then it beats me ib how you can condone it???........so lets get it out on the table for all 2 see!!!

 

What exactly does it saaaay Mick?

 

I posted what happened when I last confronted the muppet brigade on the PRO thread. Twanged a few nerves there I think, cos the wires were fairly twanging after it: (1) received an email from someone complaining I had used his name to try and clear 'this man' when I had not - I cited his name in a reply to Andy in his rebuttal that there was 'no campaign of rumour' (2) my club received a complaint from a member that I had alleged that he/she/it was involved in an assault - the member was supposedly told this by someone on this site, another one who can't read I fear (3) the very next day 'the eveidence' was hand delivered to my door, with the request that I should post it? Well I did post up on it Mick, but not quite in the way that the folk trying to manipulate me wanted; I am a layperson, Gareth Rankin is in law enforcement - ask him what weight this 'evidence' carries, not forgetting it was illegally obtained, and that an alleged assault was committed in collecting it.

 

 

[Guest IB]

You are a complete joke or in your pal Gibsons own words " A total *expletive removed* "

Were you not furnished ( delivered to your door ) with some undeniable evidence and yet you condone this mans actions.I say to you , get to hell out this sport as there is no place for anyone, who supports cheats,in any way. Post the evidence you recieved and let the members here decide instead of making an *expletive removed* of yourself.

 

 

You obviously missed my reply to Gareth in the other thread on whether I condone cheating. Case you missed it, or just ignored it, I do not condone wrongdoing of any sort.

 

I will not act the muppet for you or anyone else. You had this so called evidence before me - why haven'y you posted it? All mouth as usual, condemning other folk for not doing what you haven't done yourself.

 

I understand enough about 'evidence' to recognise big time gaffe when I see it. Ask your pal Gareth, he knows a lot more about evidence than I do - he'll tell you what its worth in the 'proof' business.

 

And in case you've forgotten - I do not condone any wrongdoing - what you are doing here is wrong. There's no place for your type in any sport.

[JAS]

 

What exactly does it saaaay Mick?

 

I posted what happened when I last confronted the muppet brigade on the PRO thread. Twanged a few nerves there I think, cos the wires were fairly twanging after it: (1) received an email from someone complaining I had used his name to try and clear 'this man' when I had not - I cited his name in a reply to Andy in his rebuttal that there was 'no campaign of rumour' (2) my club received a complaint from a member that I had alleged that he/she/it was involved in an assault - the member was supposedly told this by someone on this site, another one who can't read I fear (3) the very next day 'the eveidence' was hand delivered to my door, with the request that I should post it? Well I did post up on it Mick, but not quite in the way that the folk trying to manipulate me wanted; I am a layperson, Gareth Rankin is in law enforcement - ask him what weight this 'evidence' carries, not forgetting it was illegally obtained, and that an alleged assault was committed in collecting it.

 

Ian are you saying that it was one of the men\women that was at his house that allegedly assulted him. Is this another of your FACTS.

 

[Delboy]

 

What exactly does it saaaay Mick?

 

I posted what happened when I last confronted the muppet brigade on the PRO thread. Twanged a few nerves there I think, cos the wires were fairly twanging after it: (1) received an email from someone complaining I had used his name to try and clear 'this man' when I had not - I cited his name in a reply to Andy in his rebuttal that there was 'no campaign of rumour' (2) my club received a complaint from a member that I had alleged that he/she/it was involved in an assault - the member was supposedly told this by someone on this site, another one who can't read I fear (3) the very next day 'the eveidence' was hand delivered to my door, with the request that I should post it? Well I did post up on it Mick, but not quite in the way that the folk trying to manipulate me wanted; I am a layperson, Gareth Rankin is in law enforcement - ask him what weight this 'evidence' carries, not forgetting it was illegally obtained, and that an alleged assault was committed in collecting it.

 

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I would go to sleep for 2-3 weeks and maybe everything will be forgotten when you wake up.Your worse than the actual perpetrator. Feel sorry for you

 

[tarzan]

any information gained illegally CANNOT be used in a court of law

[Delboy]

any information gained illegally CANNOT be used in a court of law

 

If you witness a crime being committed then you can video this as evidence and as long as there are witnesses then you have corroberation to the act. My daughter is a lawyer.

 

[jock3]

i personally made an offer to the said person to take a pollygragh to clear his name and he declined, i said i wud foot the bill for this only if he passes, my offer still stands :-/

[gangster]

  so if im correct the evidence collected by said men is technically useless in a court of law(scottish)....because it was collected illegally??...and accept my apology ib it was not meant to sound like having ago at you personally......but were does it go now???? is he guilty or not......

[Guest IB]

Ian are you saying that it was one of the men\women that was at his house that allegedly assulted him. Is this another of your FACTS.

 

John, my posts on that thread were about rumours doing the rounds and at no time did I try to say they were 'facts'.

 

Others in the thread were posting what they considered to be 'facts' and I said they were merely repeating stuff that they too had had second hand - which amounted to hearsay, not facts. Check out PRO for confirmation of what I said : there were rumours concerning members of my own fed which I did not believe, because they were unbelievable..

 

As to the alleged assault, Delboy assures everyone that it did not take place at the man's house - check that too on PRO - and I have since been told that it did not take place on the Friday as I was led to believe, but the Saturday, a day when the 'would-be crook-catchers' were there according to their own evidence - 'the man did not hand his clock back reason unknown???

 

Quite un-nerving confirming to the police that you were in the vicinity of a man's home at or around the time of an alleged assault, albeit committing a seperate offence? Deep sh** or what?

[JAS]

 

John, my posts on that thread were about rumours doing the rounds and at no time did I try to say they were 'facts'.

 

Others in the thread were posting what they considered to be 'facts' and I said they were merely repeating stuff that they too had had second hand - which amounted to hearsay, not facts. Check out PRO for confirmation of what I said : there were rumours concerning members of my own fed which I did not believe, because they were unbelievable..

 

As to the alleged assault, Delboy assures everyone that it did not take place at the man's house - check that too on PRO - and I have since been told that it did not take place on the Friday as I was led to believe, but the Saturday, a day when the 'would-be crook-catchers' were there according to their own evidence - 'the man did not hand his clock back reason unknown???

 

Quite un-nerving confirming to the police that you were in the vicinity of a man's home at or around the time of an alleged assault, albeit committing a seperate offence? Deep sh** or what?

 

NOW ARE U SAYING I WAS THERE.

[tarzan]

 

If you witness a crime being committed then you can video this as evidence and as long as there are witnesses then you have corroberation to the act. My daughter is a lawyer.

 

 

no crime had been committed ,if im right in understanding what your saying in the threads ,you are working on the theory of hessay and the video evidence would not be allowed ,as people took it upon themselfs to determine the law and outcome.

[Guest IB]

 

NOW ARE U SAYING I WAS THERE.

 

I am saying I do not know who was involved in the alleged assault or where or when it occurred. But I thought it a strange co-incidence that the person making the complaint against me used wording that I had not, and inferred from that wording - given by someone else on here - that I had implicated his family. Kind of self-implication in the end, as it were.

 

I have the signatories to the 'video surveillance' and you are not one of them.

[Taylorsloft]

ive bieng trying to win a SNFC section for years lost good pigeons along the way a to to think what that cheating bas;;;d is getting away with makes  you want to pack it all up

[Guest IB]

  so if im correct the evidence collected by said men is technically useless in a court of law(scottish)....because it was collected illegally??...and accept my apology ib it was not meant to sound like having ago at you personally......but were does it go now???? is he guilty or not......

 

Its gone out of control, Mick, and a lot of people are being damaged.

 

Remember please that this started the way it has continued, when Gareth put a letter into SNFC reporting rumours - yes rumours - surrounding the man, and asked for an official investigation to CLEAR - yes clear - the man's name.

 

I honestly don't know what the official findings were, but the man is still a member is an official and is the PRO. So would suggest that says something positive?

 

What has happened now is that one individual new to the Fed took it upon themselves to investigate the man, and for 2 weeks videod alone from a neighbours garden. Then from following week sought other witnesses (2). No crime or complaint had been made at Fed level - after the National problem last year, the man and his table were elected back into office - unanimously - at the Fed AGM.

 

Unfortunately, this isn't an official investigation, and the person does have an issue with the man, so there's perhaps another motive behind it. You cannot go off videoing folk, its against their rights, and even police carrying out covert surveillence of this type need the Chief Constable to sign it off. They have broken Article 8, so its inadmissable.

 

There's also the question of safe custody of the evidence - what happened to the recording medium between filming, who vouched for it? One tape or many?

 

There's also question of identity of birds in video. How do you connect the video with the bird in the clock?

 

And lastly, if you suspect what you've seen is wrong, you report it to the Fed right away. You don't let it go on wek after week after week.

 

There's more, but thats enough.

[Delboy]

One thought only, why would respected pigeon men/women put their necks and their reputations on the line and come out publicly and accuse a man of cheating.Dont even contemplate jealousy, as good pigeon people admire great performances and dont envy them.The fact of the matter is, 99% of pigeon keepers in Scotland have placed a question mark over this mans head for some time now.The truth is finally coming out.

[Whats it called Cumbernauld]

This is indeed a sorry state of affairs. whatever the findings our governing bodies must be seen to act one way or another.

 

As stated by many on this thread,to many fanciers have tried to long, to win a national. So many birds lost in persuit of winning.

 

This must, and surley will be investigated, in a right and proper manor

 

All members past and present deserve nothing less.

 

Stories and hearsay is, or can be fueled by weak leadership, and lack of information.

 

Members are wondering and waiting please note action is required.

 

Good luck to all who race this weekend

 

Cheers

 

Rab Smith

[Guest WINGS 04]

WHAT IF THIS MAN WINS THIS WEEKS RACES ?? HOW IS GOING TO SAY WELLDONE OR DID HE CHEAT

[Bluedoo]

Here we are on the eve of the "big one", and whats the story. Sadly not the pigeons. I thought this matter was in the hands of the police a year ago. Have I missed something?

[Guest Vic]

It must be very serious, when you pull the kilts over your heads! lol.

[rembrant2coo]

It must be very serious, when you pull the kilts over your heads! lol.

 

thats whats wrong vic to many of the top brass have done this hoping something blows it away the one in question should not be allowed to be part of any org till the matter has been put to rest by the the officials of the same org  , suspended till further notice thats what should happen

[frank-123]

or vic put your head in the sand with your kilt on

[pjc]

If I read it correctly, on the day of the alleged offence the guy was filmed but didn't take his clock in! How then can cheating on that occasion be proved without clock records?

 

Phil

[frank-123]

WHAT IF THIS MAN WINS THIS WEEKS RACES ?? HOW IS GOING TO SAY WELLDONE OR DID HE CHEAT

 

heh big man they might be shaking him by the throat instead of the hand ;D