Droppings Test.

[Guest geordiejen]

with some of my squeekers having very wet droppings in the nest i decided to get a droppings test done.the test came back with most things negative but with a slight rise in bacteria.after disgussing the symptoms with the vet he has come up with young bird sickness.i put them on antibiotics yesterday but will need to wait at least 3 days see how things pan out.

[gulkie]

Had mine done also but all clear except for high count of coxie treated now

So hope that's sorted .who did u send ur tests to mine was Redford poultry

Very good we'll pleased.what biotic did u use .

[Guest geordiejen]

no mate its a pigeon vet called belgica dee weerd.they are in colchester.ordered the test tubes on thursday.came on friday and managed to get the last post on friday.they phoned me on the monday afternoon.had a twenty minite talk with the vet and he came to the conclusion of young bird sickness.he told me to give the birds amoxicillan or baytril,cant do anything for the virus side of the infection but fighting the bacteria is the way to combat it.they sell a number of products but only if you regester with them.the droppings test was £15.00 although they never found much in the test the symptoms discussion was more beneficial and hopefully tocuh wood this is whats needed to get my youngins back on track.they are going to send me through a booklet on the products they have for after the treatment.

[walterboswell59]

geordie if your pigeons have ybs believe me mate antibiotics make it worse the reason for this is with ybs there is allways a yeast infection present and atibiotics inflame it more but by all means try it for a few days if the birds improve its not ybs they have ybs is adenovirus one m8 honest let me know how you get on good luck with it

[walterboswell59]

geordie if your pigeons have ybs believe me mate antibiotics make it worse the reason for this is with ybs there is allways a yeast infection present and atibiotics inflame it more but by all means try it for a few days if the birds improve its not ybs they have ybs is adenovirus one m8 honest let me know how you get on good luck with it

ps have you jagged any birds resently or been in contact with someone who has

[Guest Owen]

If you have YBS and from what you have said I think you have it will not help to use antibiotics. If you do it will probably result in raging yeast infections and ruin your birds. YBS is a virus and as you know when you deal with Flue or the Common Cold antibiotics do nothing to cure these conditions. The best way to deal with this is to use De Weerd's water based vaccine and vaccinate the youngsters twice and 1 week intervals. If I were you I would also vaccinate the Old Birds as well because they will be the source of the initial infection. If the Old Birds are done it will help you to rear some decent youngsters that could win races this year. In future you should vaccinate all your breeders before the breeding season and all your youngsters twice. Once at weaning and again 4 weeks later.

If you vaccinate the vulnerable youngsters as I have described above you are likely to save most of them but some may be too far gone to recover properly. I have found that young pigeons that have been very ill with this disease rarely make up into decent old birds but yopu will have to see what happens.

[walterboswell59]

If you have YBS and from what you have said I think you have it will not help to use antibiotics. If you do it will probably result in raging yeast infections and ruin your birds. YBS is a virus and as you know when you deal with Flue or the Common Cold antibiotics do nothing to cure these conditions. The best way to deal with this is to use De Weerd's water based vaccine and vaccinate the youngsters twice and 1 week intervals. If I were you I would also vaccinate the Old Birds as well because they will be the source of the initial infection. If the Old Birds are done it will help you to rear some decent youngsters that could win races this year. In future you should vaccinate all your breeders before the breeding season and all your youngsters twice. Once at weaning and again 4 weeks later.

If you vaccinate the vulnerable youngsters as I have described above you are likely to save most of them but some may be too far gone to recover properly. I have found that young pigeons that have been very ill with this disease rarely make up into decent old birds but yopu will have to see what happens.

100 percent correct owen as i have stated in previous posts seems no one is taking it in and the only way you get ybs is with birds being in contact with vaccinated birds

[holmsidelofts]

with some of my squeekers having very wet droppings in the nest i decided to get a droppings test done.the test came back with most things negative but with a slight rise in bacteria.after disgussing the symptoms with the vet he has come up with young bird sickness.i put them on antibiotics yesterday but will need to wait at least 3 days see how things pan out.

I have one hen that feeds more water than normal to her youngsters, if its in the nest then i would say thats whats happening. You shouldnt be getting youngbird sickness at that age.

I do agree with owen on the vacination side. Youngsters should be vaccinated as soon as they are parted.

 

Jas

[peter pandy]

with some of my squeekers having very wet droppings in the nest i decided to get a droppings test done.the test came back with most things negative but with a slight rise in bacteria.after disgussing the symptoms with the vet he has come up with young bird sickness.i put them on antibiotics yesterday but will need to wait at least 3 days see how things pan out.

You have wet feeders, What minerals are you giving them and check for excess salt in them as the feeders are no doubt drinking to much water and pumping it into the nestlings, Result watery droppings, Experienced it last year with a cock taking in to much pink minerals. Removed minerals problem solved..

[Guest chad3646]

with some of my squeekers having very wet droppings in the nest i decided to get a droppings test done.the test came back with most things negative but with a slight rise in bacteria.after disgussing the symptoms with the vet he has come up with young bird sickness.i put them on antibiotics yesterday but will need to wait at least 3 days see how things pan out.

 

geordiejen did you say that you used to keep pouters if so do you still have some

 

the reason i am asking this is if you are letting your pouters out who knows where they are going

 

i have been in some pouter huts that i would not keep a pig in

[Guest geordiejen]

aye mate still keep pouters.its not due to just wet feeders guys its killing youngsters between 5-14 days old.there is different coloured droppings all around the loft so its not just the squeekers in the nest its yearling birds but they dont look sick,only the droppings are noticably not right.funny thing is all the first round of youngsters have been weaned with no problems.this leaves me a problem because i dont want to put these older youngsters anywhre near the main loft,or the young bird section.they are all in seperate pens in my pouter loft.nothing in my pouter loft has this and i have fancy breeds sitting and rearing youngsters fine.i dont know very much about y/b/sickness but if i lose all the youngsters in the nests now then its my season over for the breeding.eggs are going in the bin and all breeders getting split.does natural yogurt bring the yeast level back down?they are getting the 7 day course of antibiotics mate if nt cleared then im getting back to the vet.appreciate maybe you guys may know better but ive gone out my way to find a pigeon vet so if it goes wrong i will be back on the phone to him.i will keep you all posted on how things turn out.some of the droppings on the loft floor were water like with thread like droppings,some were green and sloppy,green with lots of white on it but still sloppy.some were light brown but perfectly formed and some were yellow,orangey colour but perfectly formed.

[Guest geordiejen]

there has been no new birds introduced to the loft,last time there was a bird put in the loft was july last year.birds dont get out either.havent jagged a bird since october last year.

[holmsidelofts]

Did you take any birds with you to the vet or did he just test your droppings.

If it was just dropping test i would suggest you get them tested for canker, this can only be done with a throat swab and cant be detected through a droppings test. I would say you have a case of wet canker which can be very common in breeding.

 

Heres what dr colin walker has to say on he subject of breeding and canker.

 

 

DISEASE CONTROL AND THE USE OF MEDICATION

 

CANKER - ITS PREVENTION, CONTROL AND TREATMENT

 

Nature of the disease

 

The disease canker is caused by a protozoan Trichomonas columbae. This is a microscopic single-celled organism. It lives within the digestive tract of pigeons, in particular the throat and crop, and can also involve associated areas such as the bile duct. The organism is fragile in the environment, only surviving for a few minutes once outside the bird. This helps with control of the disease and means that the birds cannot become infected from the loft or immediate environment as happens with other diseases such as worms and paratyphoid. The organism (trichomonad) requires intimate contact between birds to be spread and is usually transmitted by saliva or pigeon milk. Saliva contaminates food and water. As a pigeon drinks, the organism swims away from its beak and, when another pigeon comes to drink, it not only drinks the water but also the trichomonads there. When a pigeon sorts through grain, each dropped grain contains a small amount of saliva. In this way, the disease can also be spread through a feed hopper. Adult birds 'billing' can transmit the organism, as do parents when feeding their nestlings.

 

Control of canker during the breeding season

 

Correct medication is vital during the breeding season so that the level of natural immunity in the weaned youngster is as high as possible. Because the severity of the disease varies in different lofts, there is no single blanket program that is best for all lofts. There is no drug that by itself will cure canker in a loft. It is a matter of using medication correctly so that the birds can establish a strong natural immunity to the disease. It is this natural immunity that, in the longer term, protects them from the disease.

 

What causes canker to appear during the breeding season?

 

In health, every time the feeding stock bird feeds its youngsters, it passes on some of its own trichomonads to them. This gives the youngsters a controlled gradual exposure to the organism, which in turn allows them to establish their own natural immunity. Clinical disease appears in the babies when the stock birds shed too many trichomonads over a given period of time to their youngsters.

 

Increased rates of trichomonad shedding will occur if:

• the stock birds are stressed for any reason - Anything that stresses the stock bird will lead to an increased rate of trichomonad shedding and includes such things as a poorly designed loft, poor management practices, incorrect feeding, and other concurrent diseases.

• the stock birds' natural immunity is not high - Stock birds are likely to shed higher numbers more readily when breeding if their own natural immunity to the strains present in the loft is not as yet solid. This can occur if new stock birds carrying different trichomonad strains have been introduced to the loft during the non-breeding time. All birds carry some immunity to the resident trichomonad strains in their loft. When birds from different lofts mix, they exchange their trichomonad strains. Adult stock birds during the non-breeding season are not stressed and so exposure to any new strains brought in by introduced birds is unlikely to lead to disease. They are not moulting, not breeding, and have plenty to eat, and therefore no sign of canker occurs. However, when paired, if their natural immunity to the new different strains is not solid, the stress of feeding will cause them to 'break down' and shed larger numbers of trichomonads. In the same way, the introduced birds need to establish an immunity to their new loft's resident strains. This is why canker is more of a problem in lofts that are still establishing with birds coming from a variety of other lofts. As the years roll by, fewer new birds are introduced and so the chance of new trichomonad strains getting into the loft decreases. The birds' immunity to resident strains becomes solid and the effect of the disease is less marked.

 

Many fanciers are frustrated when canker appears in the stock loft. With excellent care in a good loft, they wonder just how it is that the disease can come. Certainly they are on the right track with this approach because in a good loft under good care it is less likely that the stock birds will shed large numbers of trichomonads. However, some strains are so active that problems will arise no matter how well the birds are cared for.

 

How to manage an outbreak of canker during the breeding season

 

When canker does appear during breeding, its management is two-fold. It is a matter of:

1. treating the sick youngsters - In lofts with a canker problem, all youngsters should be checked daily. If a sick youngster is noticed it can be successfully treated, and such youngsters can go on to become champions. Either Spartrix or Flagyl tablets* can be used, however, Spartrix is more convenient to medicate the nestlings. The dose of Spartrix is one tablet per adult bird. Estimate how big the youngster is compared to the adult and give it this proportion of the tablet once daily until well. Usually, one to four doses are required. It is often good to also medicate both the nest mate and parents for 2 days. If the unwell youngster is slow to respond, it is usually best eliminated. Individual pairs that breed youngsters with canker are best mated to different birds for subsequent rounds.

 

At the same time, it is important to

2. decrease the number of fresh cases - This is done by checking the number of trichomonads that the stock birds are shedding. This is achieved by giving 2 days Turbosole* periodically. The exact frequency depends on the incidence of canker but usually every 1 - 3 weeks is appropriate. One needs to give sufficient 2-day courses to limit the number of new youngsters with the disease, but at the same time to avoid overuse of the drug so that the developing youngster is still getting an on-going exposure to the organism. It is a matter of working between these two extremes.

 

The important thing to always remember with canker during the breeding season is that the disease can never be controlled through medication alone. It is the development of a strong natural immunity that protects the birds in the longer term. It is important that medication is used to keep the birds well but used in such a way as to not interfere with the development of this immunity.

>>Back to Top

Preventative programs for the breeding season

 

In the stock loft that had canker last season

 

Treat all stock birds for 5 - 7 days before pairing and then for 2 days every 1 - 3 weeks once paired. Frequency of treatment depends on the severity of the problem and the control achieved. Try and coincide these 2-day treatment periods with the time of hatching when trichomonad shedding is highest. If canker is still a problem in certain pairs, try to only medicate these pairs. This can be achieved by breeding from them in individual runs and only medicating their water with Turbosole for 2 days as required or alternatively leaving them in the loft and just treating them with Spartrix or Flagyl tablets for 2 days when needed. Splitting the pair and remating each to other birds for the next round may help.

 

Stock birds can be crop flushed before pairing to identify those birds carrying large numbers of trichomonads. These birds are not only more likely to shed large numbers of trichomonads more readily once paired but also to pass on their genetic susceptibility to canker. In the longer term, it is best if these birds, when identified, are eliminated. The problem is that they may, in fact, be the winners and here lies the challenge for the fancier - to breed birds less susceptible to the disease that are also winners.

 

In the stock loft that had no canker last season

 

No treatment is required. If there was no problem with canker in last year's nestlings, then it is best not to medicate for canker. Any medication will stop the paired bird shedding trichomonads and therefore interrupt the on-going exposure of the growing youngster to the organism. This leads to a lower natural immunity and may in fact create a vulnerability to the disease in the postweaning period.

 

In the stock loft that had no canker last season but to which new stock birds have been introduced

 

As discussed earlier, all birds carry in their systems the resident trichomonad strains of the loft and usually have a strong natural immunity to them. A newly introduced stock bird brings these strains with it. These strains may not have been encountered by your own birds and the new birds may not have encountered yours. Both lots of birds in time must, through exposure, become immune to the other strains. If introduced in the non-breeding time, when the stock birds are not under any stress, i.e. not moulting and in a good loft with plenty to eat, no clinical disease will be seen. However, with the stress of breeding, any immunity already developed will be put to the test. If immunity is not solid at the time of breeding, excessive trichomonads will be shed and the youngsters may develop canker. For this reason, new birds, especially if introduced immediately before pairing, should ideally be mated in individual runs and the youngsters monitored. If youngsters in the main loft begin appearing with canker, the loft should be managed as discussed under the section How to Manage an Outbreak of Canker During the Breeding Season.

[Guest geordiejen]

sorry mate there was also a throat swab done.it says to half fill the test tube with no more than half the tube filled from at least 4 different droppings.also i got like a long cotton wool bud and opened the throat and whirled it around the crops of 3 different birds.the throat swab came back as normal.negative for worms .cocci.no mention of any fungi or yeast infection.the only thing was a slight level of bacteria.the vet told me he could find out which bacteria with a cultavation in petri dishes.could take up to 7 days.but he says in most cases it will be e-coli,salmonella the usual stuff found in the droppings.when you say it only comes when other birds are in with vaccinated birds do you mean pmv vaccine?all birds were vaccinated for pmv last october.i bought this colin walker book mate but when you read up on all the diseases and stuff it doesnt really pinpoint everything the birds get.i would rather stop the breeding in the main loft if the problem persists.ive got enough youngsters to keep me going this year.it pisses me off big time finding dead or dying youngsters in the nestpans.what also is confusing me is ther is 2 pairs in the loft section where its all happeneing and they have youngsters in the nest who are perfect droppings and are really live and chirpy.im going to remove these youngsters from the loft a week before weaning.will hand rear them until they learn to feed themselves.

[William Reid]

Hello geordiejen think you should stop your antibiotic treatment it will only add fuel to the fire and I think you should maybe try this .dont know what size of drinkers you have but if you mix it the way I'm going to suggest to you then even the the small cups on the pigeons nest fronts will be ok .if you have a jug that holds 2 Ltrs of water that will be fine to this add potassium permanganate till it is a light purple colour then add natural yogurt till it turns into what would look like milky tea all other supplements must be removed .give this to your birds it could take up to ten days to sort it out but as soon as you see the change in the droppings getting more firm give them harkavit - plus for three days.after this they will need turbosole for four to ten days hope this helps and this is jmo.

[Guest chad3646]

Hello geordiejen think you should stop your antibiotic treatment it will only add fuel to the fire and I think you should maybe try this .dont know what size of drinkers you have but if you mix it the way I'm going to suggest to you then even the the small cups on the pigeons nest fronts will be ok .if you have a jug that holds 2 Ltrs of water that will be fine to this add potassium permanganate till it is a light purple colour then add natural yogurt till it turns into what would look like milky tea all other supplements must be removed .give this to your birds it could take up to ten days to sort it out but as soon as you see the change in the droppings getting more firm give them harkavit - plus for three days.after this they will need turbosole for four to ten days hope this helps and this is jmo.

 

 

what i would suggest 2 ltrs of water, three heaped teaspoons of bisto mix it give it to them

 

 

 

 

 

the guy said will that help the watery droppings a said no but it will thicken them

 

lol

[William Reid]

what i would suggest 2 ltrs of water, three heaped teaspoons of bisto mix it give it to them

 

 

 

 

 

the guy said will that help the watery droppings a said no but it will thicken them

 

lol

Didn't want to upset you again big chad (the main man )but every time I post your on it I think you just like me that's fine as for treatment for pigeons you stick with your B.S. and I will pick your one doo out of a full loft again.and my six against your fckn 100+

[William Reid]

what i would suggest 2 ltrs of water, three heaped teaspoons of bisto mix it give it to them

 

 

 

 

 

the guy said will that help the watery droppings a said no but it will thicken them

 

lol

Just had a look at your posts and threads hawks,dogs ,mice,wee birds and all the other sht if you are a pigeon man it must have been a long time ago .the guy on this thread needs help and you are talking sht once again .if you know better tell the guy ya fkn smart a,ss if not shut the .*expletive removed* up . :emoticon-0127-lipssealed:

[REDCHEQHEN]

I cannot offer any advice, but if young birds are dying in the nest at between 5 and 15 days old - then there is something seriously wrong there, be it streptococcus, salmonella - or something else -(YBS seems doubtful to be honest, as they usually need to mix with other birds)

I would say that the advice you have been given is reasonable - but would go for amoxicillin (not baytril) as a treatment, as baytril will not treat strep.

[walterboswell59]

agree with you there red cheq it does not sound like ybs neaver known it to affect yb as young as that does not say a lot for the lab that did the tests

[walterboswell59]

agree with you there red cheq it does not sound like ybs neaver known it to affect yb as young as that does not say a lot for the lab that did the tests

i would try billy 99 advice if you dont see improvement with antibiotics i am allso not to keen on baytril

[Guest geordiejen]

thanks for all the advice guys but im going with what the vet says,after all ive paid him for his help and if i do otherwise then its not going to help.i just got the slip from the test through today this is what it says.

roundworms(ascaris columbae)...........negative.

hairworms (capillaria obsignate).......negative.

coccidiosis(eimeria)...................negative.

yeast(candida).........................negative.

trichomoniasis(canker).................negative.

other observtions..bacteria in swab and droppings sample.suggested belgamco and belgafox.

please note....positive means that it has been found in the sample.

if negative this means there are no traces.

this test was done by belgica de weerd in colchester essex.

this belgamco product description;

the new preparation highly effective against adenocoil-syndrome.streptococcus(enterococcus).

staphylococcus infections and other gastro intestinal infections with yellow green droppings.

belgafox....

in case of intestinal bacterial infections and symptoms of ornithose complex.

ive got the main loft on adenosan right now so it will need time to see if it will work.

the fact that young were dying in the nest had thrown me off the scent of young bird sickness but maybe the yearling birds who are breeding in the loft have come down with this.there is waterry dropings,yellow droppings and mostly good dropings around the floor of the loft from the adult birds.all adult birds look fine and appart from one hen are acting as normal and still feeding squeekers in the nest.dont know if the meds will finish the squeekers in the nest off but im leaving them to there own fate.all birds sitting eggs have duds or plastic eggs underneath them.if this sorts it out i will take another round from the birds before the breeding season is over.all youngsters from the first round of eggs are kept in another loft and all these young are thriving with no sign of illness.some of these young have already started moulting and i dont treat them with anything accept a canker tab when weaned.thanks again guys for the help i will let you all know what happens with the remaining youngsters in the nests right now and how the situation with the adult birds droppings looks when the 7 day course has been completed.

[Wiley]

Unfortunately a simple dropping and throat swab isnt enough, in my opinion you will need a dropping culture made, to find out what is exactly wrong and the most effective treatment against it. Droppings and swabs do not offer the full picture what a culture can. But in my opinion you have been misguided if they've told you they have young bird sickness, and to treat with Baytril, to me it suggest they fear much worse, then can be shown in the basic dropping and swab test, "But hey, Baytril is an all round antibiotic so it should treat it" is the feeling I'm getting from what you have stated they have said. However I wish you can pull them through and best of luck for the coming season.

[Guest geordiejen]

they told me over the phne i could get a culture done but in almost all cases its e-coli salmonella etc.the ususal stuff.and basically its treated with the same thing.antibiotics.

[Guest geordiejen]

wiley i have the colin walker book and a microscope.i tried the crop flush and couldnt find anything.this belga dee weerd vet has a good reputation so i will go with their recomendations see how things go.no youngsters in the nest have died since tuesday.the meds might kill them but im not hanging around waiting to see if they pull through.if they die from the treatment then thats the way it has to be.young bird sickness as i believe is a mixture of bacteria and virus which can be non specific.its otherewise called adenovirus.the bacterial side can be treated but the viral side not.will the young in the nest survive this well it remains to be seen.