Tougher Pigeon....? - Discussion.

[Diamond dave]

Hi all.

I am wondering if the weather for the first part of this season is carrying out a form of natural selection for us fanciers.

In years gone by, there was no way of forecasting the weather and people used to send thier birds every week not knowing whether it was going to be an East wind or whatever, so it could be that the pigeons then were tested every week and were actually "tougher".

For about the last 20 - 30 years many fanciers may have only sent when the weather is favourable

and may have to some degree "molly-coddled" thier birds. Now when all we have had for the first seven races is tough N.E. winds, we are suddenly losing pigeons left, right and centre.

- Could it be that these current birds don't have the same constitution as thier forebears - would these pigeons or thier parents or grandparents have been lost anyway if the families had been "tested" earlier in their make up.

It would be good to hear other opinions on this subject.

Best of luck to everyone,

 

D.D.

[Guest bigda]

yes i do believe that is the case and on the good day there was birds doing great times so all the doo men thought right lets get them and they killed of the old strains, but with the races getting harder, it will be the tougher bird, that will evolve if you are to look at

birds to buy, you would have to look at in what type of weather they where winning in nowadays. me thinks as good day birds are not the type we need anymore.

[OLDYELLOW]

Interesting subject . I have thought about this very subject. I do believe that faster pigeons have always been the goal however the real goal was to have 500+ milers in the loft but after the war the Belgians had little money and developed sprinters and betted on these heavily so sprinters became a valuable commodity rather than having birds that won well at 500+ miles . No-one has actually worked out how pigeons home but can only guess . One is via the sun , the next via landmarks / magnetism . Now most of this seasons races have been in fully overcast conditions so basically the birds that orientate via the sun are disorientated and wonder about with no real hope of getting home , whilst the birds that orientate via landmarks are the ones that are making it home. For some reason feds / organisations have moved there race points further west ours included , with the East wind this is pushing them further west look at the high number of birds reported just on this site in Ireland . Well if family of birds have been developed to fly a certain route these will not fair the same on a different route . Different racing always requires a different sort of bird . It's just as has been said many have developed the high velocity blow home birds that don't get tested in hard winds . It's these type of birds that win week in and out but with the bad weather we've been having they've been dropping like fly's , I'am not saying these birds are inferior I'am saying these are the birds in most peoples loft . Rest is as good as training when the weather is from north or east as the saying goes north n east not fit fer man nor beast .

[yeboah]

One of the finest fanciers i know races his young birds the full programme never bother about weather thats up to the controller his yearlings also race the programme 2yo to the channel after all club races maybe only houses 12-20 birds for the winter no mob flying but the one's he has have earned there perch 1st club 1st fed and 1st national what more could one ask for perhaps if we all took a leaf out of his book things would sort themselves out,to much molly codling myself included me thinks

[geordie1234]

One of the finest fanciers i know races his young birds the full programme never bother about weather thats up to the controller his yearlings also race the programme 2yo to the channel after all club races maybe only houses 12-20 birds for the winter no mob flying but the one's he has have earned there perch 1st club 1st fed and 1st national what more could one ask for perhaps if we all took a leaf out of his book things would sort themselves out,to much molly codling myself included me thinks

Completely agree with this type of flying, the losses will be high at first but as the season's go on you would expect the losses to become less

[yeboah]

Completely agree with this type of flying, the losses will be high at first but as the season's go on you would expect the losses to become less

He still has losses with yb like the rest of us but does not drop many after that as they are that well educated the one's that don't stand the pace are no good to him anyway .

[geordie1234]

He still has losses with yb like the rest of us but does not drop many after that as they are that well educated the one's that don't stand the pace are no good to him anyway .

Seems like the best way to go imo

[pigeonchested]

Interesting subject . I have thought about this very subject. I do believe that faster pigeons have always been the goal however the real goal was to have 500+ milers in the loft but after the war the Belgians had little money and developed sprinters and betted on these heavily so sprinters became a valuable commodity rather than having birds that won well at 500+ miles . No-one has actually worked out how pigeons home but can only guess . One is via the sun , the next via landmarks / magnetism . Now most of this seasons races have been in fully overcast conditions so basically the birds that orientate via the sun are disorientated and wonder about with no real hope of getting home , whilst the birds that orientate via landmarks are the ones that are making it home. For some reason feds / organisations have moved there race points further west ours included , with the East wind this is pushing them further west look at the high number of birds reported just on this site in Ireland . Well if family of birds have been developed to fly a certain route these will not fair the same on a different route . Different racing always requires a different sort of bird . It's just as has been said many have developed the high velocity blow home birds that don't get tested in hard winds . It's these type of birds that win week in and out but with the bad weather we've been having they've been dropping like fly's , I'am not saying these birds are inferior I'am saying these are the birds in most peoples loft . Rest is as good as training when the weather is from north or east as the saying goes north n east not fit fer man nor beast .

An interesting topic; but I think sometimes we can underestimate the affect the B.O.P. have on our birds, a good example being Friday's RPRA race from Otterburn. These yearlings were bred by some of the finest fanciers in Britain and were racing from Otterburn (200 od miles), they were attacked by B.O.P. with the result being only 2 birds home on the day from 130, as far as I know there are only 9 home after 3 days,I am sure that most of these pigeons will be bred from proven racers or breeders,nobody's fault, just wrong place wrong time. I really don't think that fanciers in some parts of the UK are getting a chance to find out what their best birds are to be honest. I do agree with you that most of us breed off too many untested birds and the east winds have not helped this year.jmo.

[yeboah]

An interesting topic; but I think sometimes we can underestimate the affect the B.O.P. have on our birds, a good example being Friday's RPRA race from Otterburn. These yearlings were bred by some of the finest fanciers in Britain and were racing from Otterburn (200 od miles), they were attacked by B.O.P. with the result being only 2 birds home on the day from 130, as far as I know there are only 9 home after 3 days,I am sure that most of these pigeons will be bred from proven racers or breeders,nobody's fault, just wrong place wrong time. I really don't think that fanciers in some parts of the UK are getting a chance to find out what their best birds are to be honest. I do agree with you that most of us breed off too many untested birds and the east winds have not helped this year.jmo.

How very true .

[dal2]

One of the finest fanciers i know races his young birds the full programme never bother about weather thats up to the controller his yearlings also race the programme 2yo to the channel after all club races maybe only houses 12-20 birds for the winter no mob flying but the one's he has have earned there perch 1st club 1st fed and 1st national what more could one ask for perhaps if we all took a leaf out of his book things would sort themselves out,to much molly codling myself included me thinks

I agree wae Mick to a point, but I have a feeling that I have too due to who he is talking about, but also have had a few good birds with good results that have been molly coddled to a certain degree!!!

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

One of the finest fanciers i know races his young birds the full programme never bother about weather thats up to the controller his yearlings also race the programme 2yo to the channel after all club races maybe only houses 12-20 birds for the winter no mob flying but the one's he has have earned there perch 1st club 1st fed and 1st national what more could one ask for perhaps if we all took a leaf out of his book things would sort themselves out,to much molly codling myself included me thinks

 

I've been in contact with a fancier for a few years now who I could only describe as the hardest task master I've met.Because he has been doing this type of flying for so long his losses are minimal.He lost two YBs last season all of them flew the programme out to 300miles.

 

The bird of prey problem is taking its toll,but like you say if we were to take a leaf out of these fanciers books we'd probably do ourselves a favour.

 

I think a big reason for losses nowadays is YBS.Not just at the young bird stage but at the yearling stage as well,these pigeons have missed some or all of their education in the year of their birth which can only be detremental to them in my opinion.

 

Have spoken with fanciers who predicted 20-30 years ago that pigeons would become faster,losses would become greater and pigeons would be far more difficult to keep healthy.As a result more disillusioned fanciers/folk packing in.One of them told me he believes this is due the countries increased interest in sprint racing and a lack of testing pigeons over 300miles onwards-eliminating those with any flaws in their make up.

 

Another thing that came up in the conversation was how fanciers keep more "stock pigeons" now than ever before ie.birds that have never been in a race basket.

 

Supplementation and medication were other things discussed.He said you can give your birds all these products we see advertised and they come out the nest looking like champions,but is this really perfect health or a way of masking weaknesses within the birds?There are only a very small percentage of pigeons nowadays that show complete natural health and vitality,is that not what we should aim for?

When the s*it hits the fan these propped up molly coddled pigeon will go a miss.

 

Basically the only way to achieve perfect health in a loft is to remove anything that isn't perfectly healthy?

 

The same fancier said to me he loses very few pigeons racing,but he culls a lot of birds.If we were to look closely in our loft and see what we see,not what we want to see would we perhaps help ourselves when it comes to losses?

[Guest lambrechts31]

I've been in contact with a fancier for a few years now who I could only describe as the hardest task master I've met.Because he has been doing this type of flying for so long his losses are minimal.He lost two YBs last season all of them flew the programme out to 300miles.

 

The bird of prey problem is taking its toll,but like you say if we were to take a leaf out of these fanciers books we'd probably do ourselves a favour.

 

I think a big reason for losses nowadays is YBS.Not just at the young bird stage but at the yearling stage as well,these pigeons have missed some or all of their education in the year of their birth which can only be detremental to them in my opinion.

 

Have spoken with fanciers who predicted 20-30 years ago that pigeons would become faster,losses would become greater and pigeons would be far more difficult to keep healthy.As a result more disillusioned fanciers/folk packing in.One of them told me he believes this is due the countries increased interest in sprint racing and a lack of testing pigeons over 300miles onwards-eliminating those with any flaws in their make up.

 

Another thing that came up in the conversation was how fanciers keep more "stock pigeons" now than ever before ie.birds that have never been in a race basket.

 

Supplementation and medication were other things discussed.He said you can give your birds all these products we see advertised and they come out the nest looking like champions,but is this really perfect health or a way of masking weaknesses within the birds?There are only a very small percentage of pigeons nowadays that show complete natural health and vitality,is that not what we should aim for?

When the s*it hits the fan these propped up molly coddled pigeon will go a miss.

 

Basically the only way to achieve perfect health in a loft is to remove anything that isn't perfectly healthy?

 

The same fancier said to me he loses very few pigeons racing,but he culls a lot of birds.If we were to look closely in our loft and see what we see,not what we want to see would we perhaps help ourselves when it comes to losses?

VERY TRUE WELL SAID............

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

Good thread with some fantastic replys.

 

Still amazes me the amount of fanciers that breed of a yearlings that were unraced as young birds, generation after generation this been done and when they get the first tricky race as yearlings these are the fanciers that have the biggest losses.

 

General rule for all has to be for young birds to fly the young bird program,

[dal2]

Good thread with some fantastic replys.

 

Still amazes me the amount of fanciers that breed of a yearlings that were unraced as young birds, generation after generation this been done and when they get the first tricky race as yearlings these are the fanciers that have the biggest losses.

 

General rule for all has to be for young birds to fly the young bird program,

 

No canny agree wae that Garteth.

Some birds are slow to mature and just arent built for yb racin.

Some of the best birds I have had have been partially raced and some never as ybs.!!

Have often scored at the yb nat for that doo tae gan down in the first two or three races???

 

I think if you know yer family of doos you will know what yearlings should be bred of and wot yins should be raced?? Thats just the same as pickin a yb out for a breeder buyer or similar, you would know wot one to choose by lookin at its breeding and its relatives performances???