Crossing Water

[JohnQuinn]

I am wondering what members thoughts are on sending birds to race points where the birds have to fly over seas for hundreds of miles.

 

Do you think it is more difficult for the birds?

 

Or do you think it would be safer for the birds regarding Percy?

 

What benefits does racing over land have that over seas does not?

[dal2]

No roosting place for tired birds must be a a big worry. When birds are tired or facing a head wind then they get low to the terrain. Non constant wave size may catch them out!

[JohnQuinn]

No roosting place for tired birds must be a a big worry. When birds are tired or facing a head wind then they get low to the terrain. Non constant wave size may catch them out!

 

Yer right enough about the waves as reports of birds drowning are common.

My thinking on the roosting point is, if your sending doos to a 550miles race and the first 300 miles are over water, why would they need to be roosting in the first place? I personally don't think the distance they fly over seas matters, but at what stage of the race they are asked to do it might. jmo

[yeboah]

Yer right enough about the waves as reports of birds drowning are common.

My thinking on the roosting point is, if your sending doos to a 550miles race and the first 300 miles are over water, why would they need to be roosting in the first place? I personally don't think the distance they fly over seas matters, but at what stage of the race they are asked to do it might. jmo

Bad enough trying to make the right decisions for liberation's over land john with weather patterns being unpredictable no where to hide out at sea ask the fishermen about that one.

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

Bad enough trying to make the right decisions for liberation's over land john with weather patterns being unpredictable no where to hide out at sea ask the fishermen about that one.

This is one fear I have for Ypres which upto now has been a very succesful race,

[yeboah]

This is one fear I have for Ypres which upto now has been a very succesful race,

birds prob come straight across into norwich area so no probs there gareth then work up east coast

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

Have heard people say that a mile over water is the equivalent to a mile and a half over land.Doubt there is any way of proving this figure to be exact but basically when they say this they mean its a lot harder flying over water than it is land.If you look at the velocities of the last 50-100 Irish national winners you can see how this could be the case,quite rare for the INFC Kings cup winner to be doing over 1200ypm obviously they are flying into the West though-usually against the wind.

Supposedely it has a lot to do with thermal uplift or lack of it over the sea.

[walterbmasson]

once there going they will not stop ive let them off poor weather f@f sectors 160 miles could see the norwegian coast from a fishing boat about march / april time the good ones made it if they can navigate from faroes i would not hesitate to send them 250 to 300 theres only one way get a race going find out

[Guest IB]

Steve Appleby is on record as saying the wind speed is much higher over open sea than it is on land. Prevailing SW winds in Britain would make a North Sea crossing pretty difficult for the pigeons, while the wind should be more favourable for them coming out of France.

 

I'm not sure that the sea crossing would be predator-free. Just a different type maybes, a sea-bird?

[Guest Hjaltland]

I've had several contacts from Norway who are keen to fly from Shetland / Orkney or UK Mainland to Norway , the main reason is to avoid raptors. They've serious problems in Norway with birds of prey. They have sent a few small batches across with very poor returns.

 

Good though to read Walter Masson speakin about liberating off the boat - in sight of Norwegian coast ... the birds that will do this in April & May will have real good feathering as the water temperatures that time of year are down at 6 or 7 c. .. Ian, yes the air temperature is certainly very much colder once you hit the sea, if you ever take a small boat off to do a bit of sea fishing you'll know all about that.. wrap up well especially early in the season

 

There is one interesting point about racing over long distances of water and that is the thought that there are no physical distractions like hills etc to drag the birds off a course.. you would think that once they are on a heading they would just carry straight on.

 

Great topic.

[Guest Gareth Rankin]

Do pigeons cross at the shortest point of land that they may see and how far can a pigeon see????

[Guest IB]

Agree Kenny that they will just carry straight on, but I can’t imagine how they will be able to get bearings in the middle of the sea, with nothing to fix on. I’ve posted on this one before, a 2 y-o late bred hen of mine, first year on the road, racing from Leicester to Falkirk (257 miles) in a South Wind, ended up in Norwegian Sector of North Sea on the Oseberg ‘A’ platform, 75 miles NW of Bergen,. She had already flown 600-700 miles, and carrying straight on would have taken her into the Artic Circle, where even if she did make landfall, which seems unlikely as she had been ‘skirting’ the Norwegian West Coast for miles, she would not have survived.

 

That incident turned into a geography lesson for me:-

 

Bergen – Aberdeen is a 400 mile sea crossing, probably in a head wind (Britain’s prevailing winds are SW).

 

Liberation in a South wind doesn’t necessarily blow the bird North into Scotland. If you look at Leicester on the map and draw a line due North, it takes you over the North East England Coastline into the North Sea. That’s because the British mainland landmass is skewed – it lies SE to NW.

 

I don’t think my bird flew that distance for the fun of it. I don’t know what made her go over the coast into the North Sea in the first place - and I don’t believe she was alone when she left England - I believe once over the sea she was unable to face the headwind to get back into Scotland. I also believe that since we are an island and east & west shores are rarely more than 35 miles away, this could be why we have those regular large unexplained losses with the majority of birds never turning up again. Some confirmation of that gut feeling comes from a p/basics member who works on a platform off east coast of England posted regular reports of race birds in his sector trying to make landfall.

 

That’s why I would be reluctant to commit any of my birds racing across the North Sea into Scotland.

[Guest spin cycle]

birds prob come straight across into norwich area so no probs there gareth then work up east coast

 

i'm on north norfolk coast and i got an ypres racer in this year. i don't know about large stretches of sea at the start....but i've the 'wash' as a barrier at the end of every race. when the birds go over it we get good ones...other times they cross at different points...and other times they follow the coast round. IMO alot depends on the wind

[gd]

NRCC will be racing from UNST next year - have a look at the line of flight

[Guest spin cycle]

NRCC will be racing from UNST next year - have a look at the line of flight

 

are you reffering to saxe fjord ?

[Novice]

When flying over open sea there is absolutely no cover from whatever wind prevails at the time.

Following long spells in the transporter some birds may be dehydrated when released. There is absolutely no opportunity for them to have a drink flying over open sea for long distances.

Many of the islands around our coasts are populated by BOP.Ailsa Craig for example has a thriving peregrine population.

[Wiley]

should see the birds trying to cross the thames, not a very wide stretch of water but the birds are very hesitant of it

[Guest Hjaltland]

'Saxavord'... yes this is the most northerly point in the UK and adds on about 40 miles + or so on to the Lerwick distances... also means an extra two ferries.

 

 

As spincyle says... a lot depends on the wind.

[geordie1234]

once there going they will not stop ive let them off poor weather f@f sectors 160 miles could see the norwegian coast from a fishing boat about march / april time the good ones made it if they can navigate from faroes i would not hesitate to send them 250 to 300 theres only one way get a race going find out

does the tenerife one loft race not liberate of a boat