Young Bird Training/Losses

[sapper756]

I thought I would start up this thread after reading quite a few posts on here and listening to fanciers in my area commenting on the amount of young birds being lost while on a training tosshttp://forum.pigeonbasics.org/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif

 

what do the PB members think is the cause of this?http://forum.pigeonbasics.org/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif

 

I know in years past, a lot of youngsters were lost during racing, but I do not recall so many fanciers saying they were losing them training prior to racing as muchhttp://forum.pigeonbasics.org/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif

 

WHAT DO YOU THINK FOLKS?

 

 

[Guest bernie w]

It is clear the problem is the BOP. I listened to a RSPB employee proadly saying on TV how each pair operates in a 4 mile exclusive territory. We have 5 know pairs operating around our South Lanarkshire village so anyone training around this area has a very high percentage chance of being hit. I predictate this will be the worst YB season on record. Fanciers are breeding more to feed more.

[slim45]

difenetily bop since i started tranning 6 weeks the first 2 weeks had 8 back hawked missing tails and flights and lost 10 the ones that came back told the tail not lost any since then i think when you start tranning the young birds they take an age to clear and gives bop time to get above them and cause havoc i think the bop must be teaching there young at that time with the amount of young birds that got hit

[geordie1234]

ive lost 2 in the last 2 das thats just letting mine out the loft but theyre only really beginning to fly well so thats prob how but its gutting when you only have 9

[Guest Tooshy Boy]

TOOSHY BOY. MY OPINION I THINK THEIR IS TO MUTCH RUBISH BEING BRED.REMEMBER ONE THING RUBISH WILL AWAYS BREED YOU MORE RUBISH.//TOOSHY BOY.// IFOUND OUT THE HARD WAY GOOD LUCK.//

[OLDYELLOW]

I think there are many reasons for yb losses

(1) birds of prey

(2) too many people training at same times so clashing

(3) if trained with club mates would be more organised larger flocks going into same area safety in numbers which would reduce strikes

(4) darkness system i feel these ybs in adult bodys are just that bodys developed but not there minds , i feel the earlier you breed the earlier they need to be trained but the darkness system wont allow it

(5) alot of birds that should of been removed at weaning stage are allowed to mature , and weak breeding stock rearing weak birds

(6) underlying ailment such as ecoli and canker and respirtitry

 

well there my opinion on the high losses

[Guest Tooshy Boy]

THATS THE TRUTH WELL SAID.TOOSHY BOY.//

[geordie1234]

See the way I've lost 2 in 2 days do you think that's just because I only had nine and they've really just started flying futher than the end of the street

[billt]

Too many poor quality youngsters being bred, I have 11 y/birds, 1 egg disappeared, all flying well, I am lucky that I don't have clashing as no other lofts within miles of me, not been too bad re. bop's this year,A Gos had 4 adults in 9 days a month ago, but he got too cheeky in the end.

[Guest Tooshy Boy]

See the way I've lost 2 in 2 days do you think that's just because I only had nine and they've really just started flying futher than the end of the street

TOOSHY BOY IF YOU CAN LET THEM OUT WITH YOUR OLD BIRDS FOR A FEW DAYS TOOSHY BOY.

[geordie1234]

thats the thing mate i dont have any only had my first birds now for 3 weeks so a guess its to be expected

[Guest Tooshy Boy]

IM THE SAME I ONLY HAVE THREE OLD HENS LEFT.BUT THATS PIGOENS THAY HAVE TO PROVE THEMSELVES./TOOSHY BOY.//

[geordie1234]

So true mate there is always going to be losses especially when you have just started pigeon racing 3 weeks ago

[Guest bakes]

me fella has had a stack load of strays last 2 days come in with the birds coming back from training or when exercising had a bloke drive down from nottingham other day picked a yb up he lost a bloke from birmingham another from northampton god nose whats happening he had one come in this morning from national flyer said when he rang the wing stamp up the bloke has had a stinker of a training toss lost most of his team yet there had a good 10 + tosses before hand and still waiting on his tarbes birds only a few timed in his section me fella going to get his mate to take it up country closer to wear it comes from the birds from rotherham losses are getting worse year after year now iver with ybs or oldbirds training/raceing

 

atb

nikki b

bakes misses

[Guest Tooshy Boy]

GEO1234. I USED TO KNOW G T BAIRD .THAT RACED IN THE BELLSHILL CLUB HIS WIFE WAS FROM HOLLAND.//TOOSHY BOY.//

[john cumming]

I think there are many reasons for yb losses

(1) birds of prey

(2) too many people training at same times so clashing

(3) if trained with club mates would be more organised larger flocks going into same area safety in numbers which would reduce strikes

(4) darkness system i feel these ybs in adult bodys are just that bodys developed but not there minds , i feel the earlier you breed the earlier they need to be trained but the darkness system wont allow it

(5) alot of birds that should of been removed at weaning stage are allowed to mature , and weak breeding stock rearing weak birds

(6) underlying ailment such as ecoli and canker and respirtitry

 

well there my opinion on the high losses

 

i agree just a combination of the above, also the weather i would say has an effect on loosing ybs??

[geordie1234]

I'm dreading tossing the ybs from what I've read everyone is suffering bad losses

[Guest stb-]

SICKNESS BOP AND PEOPLE BREEDING OF CRAP DOOS

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

SICKNESS BOP AND PEOPLE BREEDING OF CRAP DOOS

 

Obviously these are all big issues but does anybody think stress is a factor?

curious to see if anybody thinks the way doos are raced nowadays in comparison to say 30-40 years ago is a lot more stressful on the pigeons?

the systems we race,times we pair up,variations on feeding,how quickly we expect birds to develop etc.

 

would be interesting to hear some of the experienced fanciers takes on this

[JohnQuinn]

Its hard to say whether modern methods are better/worse than 30 years ago, what is beyond doubt is that the pigeons nowadays are faster than the doos of 1980.

In those days most lofts would have had Larger birds than they do now, doos with big Wattles and seers, broad heads and broad "shoulders". Today's birds are much smaller and, unlike 30 yrs ago, you can hardly tell the difference between sexes in some strains, this change to what i refer to as a European Type of doo, may well have reduced the homing instinct of the birds too.

Also a factor is in those days was how FEW Peregrines were around compared to today, i think the lack of 2nd day birds turning up compared to then is down to the BOPS. jmo's

[Rooster J. Cogburn]

Its hard to say whether modern methods are better/worse than 30 years ago, what is beyond doubt is that the pigeons nowadays are faster than the doos of 1980.

In those days most lofts would have had Larger birds than they do now, doos with big Wattles and seers, broad heads and broad "shoulders". Today's birds are much smaller and, unlike 30 yrs ago, you can hardly tell the difference between sexes in some strains, this change to what i refer to as a European Type of doo, may well have reduced the homing instinct of the birds too.

Also a factor is in those days was how FEW Peregrines were around compared to today, i think the lack of 2nd day birds turning up compared to then is down to the BOPS. jmo's

 

Aye i have had plenty of yearling cocks that raced as young hens since i started.

[Guest mick bowler]

Nowadays it seems all about the numbers, but why? Why have a loft full of inferior birds? I never set an amount to breed, i just breed until i have a good team. Any not upto it are removed, and only replaced if early in the season. I dont care if i have 30 left or 3, at least them 3 are worthy of a perch, and it always seems the lesser you have the better the ones are that remain!

 

I read so much about losing good birds, obviously true to an extent mainly due to BOP and wires, but do good YBs really all get lost? How many do you loose from your best proven breeding pairs compared to the others? How come we can put a lot younger Ybs in with 6 month old + Ybs and they still come? Yet some still breed from those they know will probably get lost, hoping that maybe one will be a winner, chances and averages say it may happen, but at what cost?

[Guest IB]

I found out to my cost last year that a few weeks difference in age can make a big difference to a YB's abilities, and I basically lost all that I raced.

 

I found out to my cost this year that breeding off most pairs in my loft, trying to get a team together for YB racing, isn't the way to go, as I've lost half even before I began training them. I've lost none training, (touch wood ) so maybes it's the dross that's lost and should not have been hatched in the first place?

 

I don't believe that there is safety in numbers. Quite the opposite. A big batch of pigeons flying a straight line is a big, noisy and easy target in the sky, and can't fail to attract attention. I have a 14 bird basket, so that's the max I'll train. I had bother only once this year, and that was going with OBs to a place that was known (by others) to be bad for peregrines, so I won't be going back there.

 

I've found training YBs in evenings, libbed around 1900/1915, best, and I've been doing that for 4 years now. They usually make a bee-line for home, none of this missing for hours business as has been reported by others on here when they libbed early in the day. I also train with a clubmate who flies farther and with a larger team, 30 to my 10, so my birds have to break from a larger group every time they are in the training basket. And we try to vary direction depending on wind. Our line of flight is east, but on Monday past we went 20+ miles west in a strong east wind. We hit a band of rain less than 2 miles out, we could see clear sky either side of it, and the birds still did it in under 30 minutes, and were all home before us.

 

So I think we need to examine what we do ourselves before we start blaming outside influences.

[Guest Owen]

People are breeding far too many youngsters. They seem to think that if you breed enough, you will have a better chance of winning races. I think it is quality birds that win races not betting odds or mathematics. A lot of people breed from every pigeon they own. Like breeds like so the result is bound to be disapointing. I am sure that the people who breed the numbers can not look after the birds as they should. Apart from that, they probably ruin the few good birds they do have, because they will overcrowd and cause the birds to suffer ill health. Worse still they are usually reluctant to send for the strays and impose their rubbish on to the rest of us. Then there is the vaccinations; I wonder how many of the rubbish breeders bother with that because it costs a fortune. The thing that makes me most angry is the fact that birds are sent to races with corn in their crops resulting in them throwing up. If, as is likely, their birds have diseases they will spread their filth far and wide.

So,in summary, a lot of the losses are down to incompetant fanciers breeding incompetant birds that become hawk fodder and often starve to death.

[Guest spin cycle]

People are breeding far too many youngsters. They seem to think that if you breed enough, you will have a better chance of winning races. I think it is quality birds that win races not betting odds or mathematics. A lot of people breed from every pigeon they own. Like breeds like so the result is bound to be disapointing. I am sure that the people who breed the numbers can not look after the birds as they should. Apart from that, they probably ruin the few good birds they do have, because they will overcrowd and cause the birds to suffer ill health. Worse still they are usually reluctant to send for the strays and impose their rubbish on to the rest of us. Then there is the vaccinations; I wonder how many of the rubbish breeders bother with that because it costs a fortune. The thing that makes me most angry is the fact that birds are sent to races with corn in their crops resulting in them throwing up. If, as is likely, their birds have diseases they will spread their filth far and wide.

So,in summary, a lot of the losses are down to incompetant fanciers breeding incompetant birds that become hawk fodder and often starve to death.

 

 

only been in pigeons 5 years but ,IMO, thats it in a 'nutshell'. the reason, however, is that to much 'kudos' is attached to yb flying...encouraged by money. if yb racing was 'downgraded' to last 4 weeks of the season ( i think) less would be bred and lost. BUT as most of the money in pigeons is made by yb racing could the 'sport' survive the loss of revenue????