How Many Will Make The Grade

[Guest vander mungo]

from every 10.yb,s reared how many will make the standers your looking for,2 if your lucky

look in the for problems,before you start to blame controlers for your losses

[OLDYELLOW]

most the time i point the finger at myself , observation seeing and knowing a bird is fit for the job in hand , birds can take knocks and they dont fly so well then they might look ok but they dont fly so well;) the biggest problem we all face is clashing and bops

[sapper756]

most the time i point the finger at myself , observation seeing and knowing a bird is fit for the job in hand , birds can take knocks and they dont fly so well then http://forum.pigeonbasics.org/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif they might look ok but they dont fly so well;) the biggest problem we all face is clashing and bops http://forum.pigeonbasics.org/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif

 

 

I think you forgot to add OVERCROWDINGhttp://forum.pigeonbasics.org/public/style_emoticons/default/angry.gif

[Guest vander mungo]

most the time i point the finger at myself , observation seeing and knowing a bird is fit for the job in hand , birds can take knocks and they dont fly so well then they might look ok but they dont fly so well;) the biggest problem we all face is clashing and bops

bad weather can be a issue for losses,but theres always birds home at exspected times.

look inside for the problems not outside.

the people who do these jobs do there best to get your birds home,and should be thanked for taking on a job no one else wants

errors are made in all parts of life

[Guest Owen]

I feel sure that there are too many birds reared from inferior stock. I am often surprised at the number of people who rear from birds that, either have not been on the road, or else have done nothing. I was as bad as anybody, in the past. I would rear from everything and every year I had loads of youngsters and my losses were terrible. These days I only rear from cocks who have won at least 4 races and by using the "bull system" the unqualified cocks are used as rearers. My hens are never flown as old birds so I always have a suplus of hens at the end of every year. It is easy for me to select the best based on their young bird performances. I have now reached the stage where I do not have to rear anything like as many youngsters because the quality of my stock is slowly getting better all the time. In regard to your question about the sucess rate of the birds. I reckon that 50% of mine are not up to standard 25% are pretty good and 25% are very good and will score. I wish I knew how to recognise the 50% that are not good enough, because they could go straight to the bin and save me a lot of time and money. All I have right now is the process of progeny testing them on the road. I can not find anything else that will do the job as well.

[Guest vander mungo]

I feel sure that there are too many birds reared from inferior stock. I am often surprised at the number of people who rear from birds that, either have not been on the road, or else have done nothing. I was as bad as anybody, in the past. I would rear from everything and every year I had loads of youngsters and my losses were terrible. These days I only rear from cocks who have won at least 4 races and by using the "bull system" the unqualified cocks are used as rearers. My hens are never flown as old birds so I always have a suplus of hens at the end of every year. It is easy for me to select the best based on their young bird performances. I have now reached the stage where I do not have to rear anything like as many youngsters because the quality of my stock is slowly getting better all the time. In regard to your question about the sucess rate of the birds. I reckon that 50% of mine are not up to standard 25% are pretty good and 25% are very good and will score. I wish I knew how to recognise the 50% that are not good enough, because they could go straight to the bin and save me a lot of time and money. All I have right now is the process of progeny testing them on the road. I can not find anything else that will do the job as well.

that means one quarter of your birds bred make the grade,cant quarter 10,thats why i said 2 if your lucky

you need to breed around your best, 1 prepotent hen is a goldmine in this game she will breed winners with any cock

[OLDYELLOW]

I think you forgot to add OVERCROWDING

think Roland would disagree with overcrowding but i do agree a loft will be happy at a certain level of birds also birds will rest better when not over crowded

[peterpau]

So what is good enough? For me I'm looking for 700 milers. I'd be amazed to get 2 from 10. 1 from 20 would make me happy.

[OLDYELLOW]

So what is good enough? For me I'm looking for 700 milers. I'd be amazed to get 2 from 10. 1 from 20 would make me happy.

the further the milage the less they'd be 700 milers only come from good 700 milers

[pjc]

I think there are far more factors now than ever before.

Yes, the conditions within the loft have to be right as do the health conditions but every week we here about multiple winners being lost, have they become bad birds or just become bop feed?

 

Yesterday a club mate was calling his 1st bird in as another single bird flew down the valley to be taken out by a percy infront of him, that bird was up with the leaders and could well have been somebody's best bird.

 

How can you realy determine a good bird flying under these conditions?

[OLDYELLOW]

I think there are far more factors now than ever before.

Yes, the conditions within the loft have to be right as do the health conditions but every week we here about multiple winners being lost, have they become bad birds or just become bop feed?

 

Yesterday a club mate was calling his 1st bird in as another single bird flew down the valley to be taken out by a percy infront of him, that bird was up with the leaders and could well have been somebody's best bird.

 

How can you realy determine a good bird flying under these conditions?

have to agree 100% with ya :)never been as hard to hold on to good birds

[Guest vander mungo]

So what is good enough? For me I'm looking for 700 milers. I'd be amazed to get 2 from 10. 1 from 20 would make me happy.

one from twenty would be a good average from these amazing distance birds,but if you cant get one from ten from birds not asked to do

these distances.then why persist breeding from them.

even worst crime is to sell them on just to get your money bbck.

if they din,t breed good ones for you they wont do it for someone else. WHEELY BIN

[peterpau]

I get very good results at 600+. I've never let a pigeon leave here if it aint good enough for me. I have never sold a bird on to get my money back. I've given birds away from my 750 mile stock. Do you have a loft full of National winners????????????????

[Guest vander mungo]

I get very good results at 600+. I've never let a pigeon leave here if it aint good enough for me. I have never sold a bird on to get my money back. I've given birds away from my 750 mile stock. Do you have a loft full of National winners????????????????

no having a dig at you m8 read the post again respect the birds youve got, on about the fancy in general.

if you can only manage 1 in 20 good ones.how mutch rubbish are we breeding and racing

ive turned the corner ,dont race good dont breed good wont be there next year

[dal2]

Have had a few SNFC ticket winnin birdsb that have bred hee-haw. Had yearlins doon for first time tae breed SNFC ticket winnin birds. Have spent thousands on stock that bred nowt and had gift stock that done the biz. Been in the loft since a woz walkin in amongst some o the best fliers that we still read about in the fancy and still canny get it right. Jeez o its a hard game!!

[jimmy white]

from every 10.yb,s reared how many will make the standers your looking for,2 if your lucky

look in the for problems,before you start to blame controlers for your losses

 

in my opinion, theres no set average, i think there are many factors that can effect this average, firstly only breed off healthy contented birds, then only keep yb,s that are robust and well reared, from the very offsett, i think overcrowding is one of the worst scenarios, to my mind this only produces stress which in turn can cause health probs, i also think that all young birds "lost" are not all bad birds, there are many many hazzards nowadays, i still think the old adage of never "putting all your eggs in one basket" still goes,, looking at yb racing nowadays i still think its wise to stop some after being well trained and raced 100 miles, in short some good yb,s never get the chance to become good old birds, so the average can become somewhat higher , with good, carefull management,,,only my opinion lol

[Guest Owen]

I have used the Bull system for a few years now. It has transformed my results in terms of losses and I send the youngsters all the way to the last races wereas I could never do that before. I reckon that my results are pretty much as follows:-

50% below standard, 25% average to good, 25% excellent. I think as time goes on I can get better but progress is bound to be slow from here. These days all my youngsters are bred from cocks that have won at least 4 races and many of the hens have done well as young birds. The hens do not race as old birds because I only fly widowhood. At the end of every year I have too many hens so the selection is very hard. Only the best are kept. Last year, for example, I only kept one hen.

In my opinion, there are too many birds bred from poor quality stock and like begats like. For some reason people think that the birds that are offered for sale by the Studs will set them up with winners. Or even by keeping pure bred stock they will be able to breed birds like long dead ancesters. Surely the penny should have dropped by now. The odds of being sucessful in that way are bound to be very long. Not an impossibility but very long. So in conclusion, I think you should concentrate on your best birds and progress from there. If you feel that your best is not good enough, then buy just one top performing cock each year for the next few years and get him to sire lots of youngsters as a bull. You will need more than one good performing cock because not all performers can sire their like. Doing things this way will definately turn the odds in your faviour and take much of the gamble out of things for you.

[Guest mick bowler]

I think there are far more factors now than ever before.

Yes, the conditions within the loft have to be right as do the health conditions but every week we here about multiple winners being lost, have they become bad birds or just become bop feed?

 

Yesterday a club mate was calling his 1st bird in as another single bird flew down the valley to be taken out by a percy infront of him, that bird was up with the leaders and could well have been somebody's best bird.

 

How can you realy determine a good bird flying under these conditions?

 

Your not wrong there phil!!

 

From 24 to 3, and of the 5 i lost yesterday, 3 of them would been 1,2,3 in the club last week. I trained 7 yesterday, 1 home in an hour, 1 hour later and cut to ribbons and 5 adrift, all raced and well trained as i said above.

[Guest vander mungo]

in my opinion, theres no set average, i think there are many factors that can effect this average, firstly only breed off healthy contented birds, then only keep yb,s that are robust and well reared, from the very offsett, i think overcrowding is one of the worst scenarios, to my mind this only produces stress which in turn can cause health probs, i also think that all young birds "lost" are not all bad birds, there are many many hazzards nowadays, i still think the old adage of never "putting all your eggs in one basket" still goes,, looking at yb racing nowadays i still think its wise to stop some after being well trained and raced 100 miles, in short some good yb,s never get the chance to become good old birds, so the average can become somewhat higher , with good, carefull management,,,only my opinion lol

youre right jimmy on some of your points most good fanciers know ther good eggs from bad ones.unfortunately some dont and will breed from every bird in there loft,dosnt help the good ones if theres to many bad ones tagging along

[jimmy white]

youre right jimmy on some of your points most good fanciers know ther good eggs from bad ones.unfortunately some dont and will breed from every bird in there loft,dosnt help the good ones if theres to many bad ones tagging along

 

 

i think your right as well vander,, i sometimes think that some fanciers, will breed from birds possibly because they have paid a lot for the parent birds, then try and "save" the yb,s even if they are not quite right,, in my opinion this is fatal,,and as you say, many will breed from almost anything, thinking that numbers will improve their team, to me , this will do the opposite,, its cheaper to feed a few good ones,, but a lot dearer to feed a lot of bad ones lol

[Roland]

I believe too many breed to offset their losses. Owen's and Jimmy's posts are very relevant and true.

What I feel then though is the simple reality as to why a better 'Average' is simply because over a period of time they have weeded out many lost causes and are thus breeding from proven stock. Even then of course they have a percentage of losses, and this will I think vary from season to season. BUT the hard work of weeding out inferior stock has not only been done, but continues to be done every season. A stringent and never ending process I fear.

Further it is far far easier to fill up a loft with birds that are simply not good enough, through breeding a quantity in 'Hope' rather than using a yardstick! The first yardstick has to be the loft, then Club / Fed etc. etc. The main problem is lack of patience I fear. Yes it will take 2 - 3 years for birds to be given a fair chance. So getting in and breeding from a 'Good sauce' in the first place is essenstial too I believe. JMO.

[Guest mick bowler]

I think you have to remember here that its only a myth that only top birds will or can win races. An average bird in the right hands and on the right day will also win. I'm sure there are far more "one off" winners than there are multi-winners, and only a multi winner can be classed as a "top" bird or "champion". This is also where it can go all wrong. A fancier can breed one of these "average" winners from a pair where every other bird has been lost or not performed. They will then carry on breeding from this same pair hoping for another "one off". There is a massive difference "hoping" a bird will win and "knowing" a bird is capable of winning.

 

Its also the same mentality when it comes to prizewinners (2nd, 3rd, 4th etc). As well as one off of these too, most fanciers are under the belief that a pair that have bred prizewinners are also likely to breed birds that will win races consistently, but unless they produce one as above, then it is highly unlikely.

 

I'd rather race 3 birds with 10 cards each, than 30 with 30 cards between them. God loves a tryer and so do i!

[Guest vander mungo]

I think you have to remember here that its only a myth that only top birds will or can win races. An average bird in the right hands and on the right day will also win. I'm sure there are far more "one off" winners than there are multi-winners, and only a multi winner can be classed as a "top" bird or "champion". This is also where it can go all wrong. A fancier can breed one of these "average" winners from a pair where every other bird has been lost or not performed. They will then carry on breeding from this same pair hoping for another "one off". There is a massive difference "hoping" a bird will win and "knowing" a bird is capable of winning.

 

Its also the same mentality when it comes to prizewinners (2nd, 3rd, 4th etc). As well as one off of these too, most fanciers are under the belief that a pair that have bred prizewinners are also likely to breed birds that will win races consistently, but unless they produce one as above, then it is highly unlikely.

 

I'd rather race 3 birds with 10 cards each, than 30 with 30 cards between them. God loves a tryer and so do i!

at least you know where im coming from m8.but unfortunately others breed from every pair in the loft looking for that elusive winner.instead of concentrating on the pairs that can breed winners

[Roland]

When one is lucky enough to get one of them elusive pairs that breed winners I often have to smile when I see, after all the trouble and strife, heartache and trying to get a pair that breeds winners, 'Goldern Pair' how many are sold on!