paramyxovirus injections for or against?

[Guest Silverwings]

I feel that injecting against paramyxovirus should be re considered and stopped for a trial period ,to see if the natural imunity within our birds is now capable of controling it ? or say a one  off injection per bird introduced ( not an every year  thing ) what are other  members thourghts on this ?

[jimmy white]

i would agree with you silverwings  vaccinated as yb only, i know many will disagree but thats only my opinion

[ALF]

I think the birds should only be jagged as young birds and that should be it.Have never agreed with it but have always vaccinated every year anyway >

[Silverdale Lofts]

I would agree with you both Ray and Jimmy looking in the bhw this week 2005 23 reported outbreaks in all 20 in england and 3 in scotland 23 cases in 2004 and 34 in 2003 but its the same old story money the millions they are making out of the pigeon fancier the injecting will be here to stay.

[Tony C]

Do the RPRA compile and pass on a risk assessment annually to DEFRA for paramyxovirus ?

[REDCHEQHEN]

Our club only charges 25p per bird for the vaccination, money well spent.

Rather like measles jabs for babies - the epidemics only happen when people STOP the vaccinations.

So perhaps there are so few outbreaks because of the compulsory vaccinations for paramoxyvirus.

[jimmy white]

never even heard of paramyxovirus 20 years ago

[Lowfieldlad]

agree with jimmy white how come the stockbirds dont catch it.

[Guest TAMMY_1]

Our club only charges 25p per bird for the vaccination, money well spent.

Rather like measles jabs for babies - the epidemics only happen when people STOP the vaccinations.

So perhaps there are so few outbreaks because of the compulsory vaccinations for paramoxyvirus.

 

WHY DOES YOUR CLUB CHARGE YOU ANYTHING  ? ARE YOU NOT ALLOWED TO DO IT YOURSELF, ? I JAG ALL MY OWN BIRDS AND A FEW OTHER MEMBERS  BIRDS AS WELL

[T_T]

Can the older end of the forum remember being at school and getting ONE jab for Polio, Measles etc and never having to worry about it anymore ? well surely the same should apply to the birds with a jab for Paramyxo.  A one off jab and we should be pushing for it.  I think all these government bodies have a monopoly on pigeon fanciers and are ripping us off.

What next, an annual jab for Bird Flu.?

[Guest TAMMY_1]

THERE ALLREADY IS AN ANNUAL JAB FOR FLU THOUGH NOT COMPULSARY  !! YET!!

[REDCHEQHEN]

 

WHY DOES YOUR CLUB CHARGE YOU ANYTHING  ? ARE YOU NOT ALLOWED TO DO IT YOURSELF, ? I JAG ALL MY OWN BIRDS AND A FEW OTHER MEMBERS  BIRDS AS WELL

 

Don't know if we're allowed or not, but forms have to be filled in from union that requires a witness. It does mean that we only pay for what is vaccinated, no left over vaccine.

[Guest shadow]

Our club does the same it also helps too eliminate the flyers who sign the paper work but do not jab the birds, its been known to happen.

[Guest]

There was a letter published signed by a number of vets questioning the whole annual  vaccine scene for all 'companion' animals. They agree with other posts here that a one-off + maybe one booster was a better way to go.

 

The vaccinated birds create a protective ring round unvaccinated ones in the loft, e.g. stock birds. However, a vaccinated pigeon passes on protective antibodies in its milk, so there's benefit in doing them every couple of years or so too.

 

Like others I reckon vaccination programme is the reason for so few birds going down with it. But there's surely a lot of scope for improving the system.

[Chatrace]

I would hate to drop a whole team for the lack of a PMV shot, I do all the Ybs in my lofts they also get a POX vac just to save the hassle of they getting it and the mess it can cause

[Guest Silverwings]

good post Bruno ,be interesting to see that vets letter ? .....ray

[Guest]

good post Bruno ,be interesting to see that vets letter ? .....ray

 

 

Honestly can't remember where I read it! May have been browsing for other stuff and happened upon it on a website, or maybe the Homing World, certainly didn't take a copy at the time.

[Guest]

Here's an extract from the work. Its moved on apace, its now a government working group, and it has been taking evidence on cat & dog vaccines. Full response to evidence at:

 

http://www.bsava.com/VirtualContent/85263/download_vaccination.pdf

 

Here's the kind of thing they've been talking about .... think pigeons when you read it.

 

 

Recommendation 13

The Working Group concludes that, currently, there is insufficient information to propose re-vaccination intervals on product literature other than those recommended by the manufacturer, and approved by the regulatory process. However, the Working Group recommends that for both cat and dog vaccines, statements be added to the product literature indicating that the regime for booster vaccinations is based on a minimum duration of immunity rather than a maximum, and that a risk/benefit assessment should be made for each individual animal by the veterinary surgeon in consultation with the owner so that, if required, an informed choice may be made by the owner with respect to the necessity for a particular vaccine and the frequency of its use. The assessment should include discussion on the likelihood of exposure, available data on duration of immunity, and the risks related to vaccination.

 

The Working Group also recommends that more information should be provided for veterinary surgeons and owners by Marketing Authorisation Holders in order to facilitate such decision-making.

 

Government Response

The Government accepts this recommendation in principle but considers that this type

of general information is best disseminated by means of continuing professional

development for the veterinary profession rather than by inclusion on the product

literature for specific products. The UK has been instrumental in the production of an

advisory notice by the CVMP in March 2003 advising veterinary surgeons that

vaccination, and re-vaccination should be based on a risk benefit assessment for the

individual animal.

The Government encourages marketing authorisation holders to voluntarily place as

much information on their products as possible in the public domain to enable vets and

owners to make informed choices.

 

Recommendation 14

The Working Group recommends that manufacturers and other organisations should be

encouraged to obtain data on disease incidence and duration of immunity in the field:

epidemiological studies should help identify risk factors for a disease.

 

Government Response

The Government accepts that collecting this information will help inform decision

making. We will discuss how to implement this recommendation with interested parties

and in the light of the developing Veterinary Surveilance Strategy which may provide a

source of information.

 

Recommendation 16

The Working Group therefore recommends that the appropriate regulatory authorities

produce clear legislation and guidelines which lead to determination of as long a

duration of immunity for each product as possible.

 

Government Response

European legislation does not encompass ‘comparative’ licensing and therefore the

Government does not accept this recommendation. Regulatory authorities generally

require that the duration of immunity (DOI) demonstrated is appropriate in relation to the epidemiology of the disease concerned but there is no legal requirement to maximise this period. Therefore, it becomes a commercial decision as to the DOI sought by the manufacturer. Increased publicity of the risks of vaccine associated sarcomas, and other SARs related to vaccination, should lead to a commercial incentive to develop vaccines with as long a DOI as possible.

 

 

[Guest]

good post Bruno ,be interesting to see that vets letter ? .....ray

 

Think this is it:-

 

http://www.imbaliridgebacks.co.uk/healthissues.html

 

Article dated 19 March 2004 –

 

“YEARLY JAB A THING OF THE PAST?”

Booster may put animals at risk

 

A group of vets is calling on their profession to cease the policy of annual vaccination.

They say that evidence currently available shows that vaccinations given after six months may be ‘good for life’.

Annual boosters for parvovirus and distemper are unnecessary, they say, and subject the animal to risk of allergic reactions and autoimmune disorders, immuno-suppression, infections and anaemia.

“Can we wonder that clients are losing faith in vaccination and researching the issues for themselves?” they write. “We think they are right to do so.

“Politics, tradition or the economic wellbeing of vets and pharmaceutical companies should not be a factor in making medical decisions.”

They allege that promoting annual vaccination constitutes fraud and theft and recommend that booster vaccinations are given every three years. The 31 vets writing in the Veterinary Times cite the American Veterinary Medical Association Committee’s recent report which states that annual re--vaccination recommendations are based on ‘historical precedent, not scientific data’.

They say there is no proof that yearly vaccinations are necessary, that protection may be life-long and that ‘re-vaccination of patients with sufficient immunity does not add measurably to their disease resistance and may increase their risk of adverse post-vaccination events’.

A recent report by the American Animal Hospital Association Canine Vaccine Tasksforce said that: “… no vaccine is always safe, no vaccine is always protective and no vaccine is always indicated.

“Misunderstanding, misinformation and the conservative nature of our profession have largely slowed adoption of protocols advocating decreased frequency of vaccination,” the report reads.

“Immunological memory provides durations of immunity for core infectious diseases that far exceed the traditional recommendations for annual vaccination. This is supported by a growing body of veterinary information as well as well-developed epidemiological vigilance in human medicine that indicates immunity induced by vaccination is extremely long lasting and, in most cases, life-long.”

It says that evidence shows the duration of immunity for rabies, canine distemper and canine parvovirus vaccines, among others is a minimum of seven years.

The vets wrote: “We fully accept that no single achievement has had greater impact on the lives and wellbeing of our patients, our clients and our ability to prevent infectious diseases than the developments in animal vaccines.

“However, we fully support the recommendations and guide-lines … to reduce vaccine protocols for dogs and cats such that booster vaccinations are only given every three years and only for core vaccines unless otherwise scientifically justified.”

“In the light of data now available showing the needless use and potential harm of annual vaccination we call on our profession to cease the policy of annual vaccination.

“It is accepted that the annual examination of a pet is advisable. We undervalue ourselves, however, if we hang this essential service on the back of vaccination and will ultimately suffer the consequences. Do we need to wait until we see actions against vets such as those launced in the state of Texas by Dr. Robert Rogers? He asserts that the present practice of marketing vaccinations for companion animals constitutes fraud by misrepresentation, fraud by silence and theft by deception.

Deserving

“The oath we take as newly-qualified vets is ‘to help, or at least do no harm’. We wish to maintain our position within society and be deserving of the trust placed in us as a profession. It is therefore our contention that those who continue to give annual vaccinations in the light of the new evidence may well be acting contrary to the welfare of the animals committed to their care.”

The signatories are care of an address in Lodsworth, East Sussex.

The letter was welcomed by Catherine O’Driscoll, who through her group Canine Health Concern has been campaigning to end annual vaccinations for many years.

She said this week: “We and others whose dogs have suffered vaccine reactions and whose beloved friends have died and suffered unnecessarily have been pilloried and castigated for speaking the truth for long enough now.

“Time to take this letter to your vet and to post it to other vets in your neighbourhood; time to show this letter to all the dog lovers you meet in the park or at classes.

“Time to get the truth out there once and for all and time to stop our animals suffering. My respect and gratitude go to the courageous vets who signed the letter.”

 

 

[Guest]

i agree.i dont like to inject my birds atall only do so because its union rules would like to see it stoped

[Guest Silverwings]

Bruno thanks for sorting that letter out , its a very interesting read , i think its high time the entire vacination process was given  a re think ,will try and make a few waves through the B.H.W and R.P think one jab per bird for life , any other ideas ?

[Guest]

Bruno thanks for sorting that letter out , its a very interesting read , i think its high time the entire vacination process was given  a re think ,will try and make a few waves through the B.H.W and R.P think one jab per bird for life , any other ideas ?

 

 

I've emailed the British Small Animals Veterinary Association using their web-page form to see if their policy extends to companion birds, and have they made any similar move with government on that too.

 

I've told them about paramyxo vaccination and asked if 'immune memory' would apply here too.

 

Also, just a reminder that it is a DEFRA requirement to vaccinate pigeons annually. Wonder what research has been done [since the original vaccines were produced in the 1980's] on immunity in racing pigeons and incidence of paramyxo disease in the wild?

  

[Guest Silverwings]

Bruno , if you have any response about that immune memory enquiry , might be an idea to display it in the letters pages  in the B.H.W and R.P will support you in any way i can with this .....ray

[Guest]

never even heard of paramyxovirus 20 years ago

 

sorry doc was it not 1985 this sh** started,they said the street pigeons at liverpool docks were falling out of the sky,well their still flying and ours are falling :-/

.

 

[THE FIFER]

BUT IT'S THE SAME WITH DOGS THEY GET VACCINATED EACH YEAR, ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT COMPULSARY. IT JUST MEANMS U WILL NOT GET THEM IN KENNELS ETC. WHICH IS THE SAME WITH PIGEONS IT'S NOT COMPULSARY, IT'S ONLY IF U ARE RACING OR SHOWING.