LATEST FROM PETER BRYANT

[Guest TAMMY_1]

October Council Meetings – ETS and the Disability Discrimination Act

 

Another busy weekend of Committee and Council meetings saw many changes and proposed changes to take the sport forward.  One of the key talking points was the work that the President and Vice Presidents had undertaken over the summer, looking at the implications of the Disability Discrimination Act for pigeon racing.  Their meetings in the summer had looked at the legal advice we had received concerning the Act and information from the ETS companies on costs etc.  I was a little surprised that one or 2 Region representatives came to the Council meeting mandated by their Regions not to allow ETS at any cost, and this before they had even heard the recommendations of the President and VPs!  After hearing the outcome of the President and Vice Presidents consultations Council agreed by a majority vote to take the matter back to Regions and that any changes to rules affecting ETS introduction should come through an AGM proposition in February.  

 

 

 

I am not sure that this will be enough.  Let me make something quite clear.  The RPRA HAS to do something.  It is a legal requirement.  So let us look at the options and the facts.  I stress facts because you the fancier will have to make a judgement on whether this is the correct course of action and what we as an organisation will need to do.

 

FACT 1 – The Disability Discrimination Act (the DDA 1995 (the Act)) makes it unlawful to discriminate against disabled persons in connection with employment, the provision of goods, facilities and services or the disposal or management of premises.  On 4 Dec 2006 an amendment to the Act will be introduced to cover private members clubs with 25 members of more.  That means the RPRA.

 

 

 

FACT 2 - Under the Act a person has a disability “if he has a physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long term adverse effect on his ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities”. So, you don’t just have to be in a wheelchair, or be an orange badge holder etc.  Disability is as broad as it is long.

 

 

 

FACT 3 – Rickerbys, the RPRA’s Solicitors, have stated that the RPRA does have an obligation to consider whether it would be reasonable to adjust the current practice of timing in.  However, it does not necessarily mean that we would have to allow ETS for disabled members.  It is a question of whether it is reasonable for us to do so.  It may be possible to review participation by disabled members as an alternative to ETS, i.e. giving assistance or a time allowance.  However, if this was not reasonable or feasible then it is more than likely that ETS would meet the obligations of the Act.

 

 

 

FACT 4 – The President and VPs made 4 recommendations

 

a.       Introduce ETS for disabled members.

 

b.      Introduce ETS for all the membership.

 

c.       Review how disabled fanciers can be assisted as an alternative to ETS if this is within the scope of the Act.

 

d.      Do nothing.

 

Rickerbys have already advised that consideration d above is not an option.

 

 

 

FACT 5 - it will be illegal to discriminate against a disabled person ‘in the way it affords him access to a benefit, facility or service’ and ‘by refusing or deliberately omitting to afford him access to a benefit, facility or service.’

 

 

 

FACT 6 – it is no good therefore for Regions just to discount introducing ETS.  If you do not want ETS then you will have to come up with a suitable alternative to assist disabled fanciers.  No change is not an option.

 

 

 

I have heard comments that ‘ETS can’t be used because it’s not in our rules’ and ‘disabled people have had to manage up to now so what’s different?’.  Well this.  Whether ETS is a currently acceptable or not it is definitely a benefit, facility or service that will aid a disabled person.  End of story.  But as our solicitors have said if an alternative to ETS can be introduced then that may be acceptable.  The President and VPs did suggest having a helper to assist a disabled fancier timing in but the very first time that the assistant does not turn up for any reason the disabled fancier will be discriminated against.  Provision of stall traps may be another solution but I would suggest that the cost to the RPRA of that would be prohibitive.  We just do not know how many disabled fanciers we have and look again at the definition of a disabled person.

 

 

 

Frankly, I do believe that we are making mountains out of molehills.  The DDA requires us to make allowances for disabled people.  Unless someone comes up with a viable alternative to ETS then there is, as far as I can see, no alternative but to introduce it.  

 

 

 

Other Committee Deliberations

 

In the Performance Enhancing Drugs Committee we heard that 46 tests all proved negative.  In the man these were pre race tests and in my opinion is the right way to proceed but the Committee suggested that we also look at alternative methods of drug testing with perhaps forensic laboratories.

 

The BHW Management Committee heard that the paper is very buoyant and that Steve Richards had done an excellent job since taking over the editor’s role last year.  In discussing who to invite to the dinner at Blackpool it was voted to invite the DEFRA Chief Vet, Dr Debby Reynolds.  This would give us a great opportunity to show the senior DEFRA official what we are all about.

 

The Future of the Sport Committee was pleased to welcome a young fancier Richard Sanderson to the meeting to hear his views.  It is hoped that after the disappointment in the number of young fanciers turning up to YFs event at Blackpool, we can pull the stops out for them in 2007 and Richard had some ideas on this. The RPRA One Loft Race was deemed to have been a great success and made a small profit that will go into a future of the sport fund (for events such as the YFs at Blackpool).  Council gave the go ahead to run the race for another 3 years subject to discussions with the Davies’ and the entry form for the 2007 race will be issued shortly.  Regions will once again have 2 school entries sponsored by the FOS.

 

The Finance meeting heard that the RPRA at the Reddings is likely to be in the red this year due in the main to AI to the tune of around £45k to £50,000.  I once again asked that we have an appropriate membership fee that would mean that I can utilise the office equipment we have and using staff more efficiently.  It is crazy in this day and age to employ someone to stuff envelopes when they could be doing your transfers etc.  It was agreed to put to the AGM that RPRA membership cost £10 per member, £7 of which comes to the Reddings and £3 to the Regions, this to take effect from February 2008.  Before everyone shouts that this is too big an increase it will mean that I will be able to provide transfers and postage free of charge, along with partnerships, and change of address notices, currently £3.50 a time.  If you were actually to see the thousands upon thousands of cheques that we have to staff here each year for ridiculously small  amounts, usually £1, then it would make your eyes water.  With the exception of foreign ring transfers going up to 75p each from 1 January 2007 (and these will not fall under the free transfer system) all other prices were held …….again!

 

In the Clock committee they acted on a letter about T3 clocks with a flapper cover.  These clocks are not approved for competition.

 

In Council there was a lot of debate about AI.  The Welsh Region wanted funds made available in case we needed to seek expert opinion and this was approved.  Council showed their appreciation of Pat Mitchell and my dealings with DEFRA this year.  It had not been easy at times but, with the exception of no young bird racing from France, I think under the circumstances we got a good deal.  I did advise Council however that we will not be complacent for 2007.  I have already drawn up a general licence of what we would want to see in 2007 and that categorically is racing from Pau, Tarbes and Barcelona etc for everyone.  I have also drawn up a press release that I intend to issue in the next few days to highlight the serious situation both the RPRA and our organisations are in financially this year due to DEFRA licence restrictions.  I hope that DEFRA will sit up and take note.

 

 

 

The New Animal Welfare Act

 

DEFRA has announced that new measures to stop the commercial sale of animals at pet fairs will be introduced under the Animal Welfare Bill, Following a judicial ruling on pet fairs the Government has decided to review its plans to regulate these events. While commercial sales of animals will be banned, there will be exemptions in the cases of koi carp, racing pigeons and poultry. These will need to be licensed by the local authority. As before, pet fairs that do not involve the sale of animals, or that do involve the sale of animals but not in the course of a business, can continue without the need for a licence.

 

Personally I welcome these new measures.  I have been involved with DEFRA over the last couple of years on this topic, providing them with our input and information and as recently as September this year, and am pleased that our lobbying has paid off.  Not every organisation involved in the consultation process such as the Parrot Society, small mammal breeds and reptiles have been so fortunate.  Currently there is too much interpretation in the present Act as to whether local Councils have to licence shows etc.  Now we have a definitive decision and we will all know where we stand.  The new proposals on pet fairs will be issued for full consultation before they go before Parliament with a likely introduction of 1 April 2007.  

 

 

 

Peter Bryant

 

General Manager

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Peter Bryant

 

General Manager

 

The Royal Pigeon Racing Association

 

The Reddings

 

near Cheltenham, Glos GL51 6RN

 

tel 01452 713529 fax 857119

 

 

 

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[Guest Paulo]

a.       Introduce ETS for disabled members.

 

the above is the best option otherwise you are discriminating against poor people like me who won't be able to afford ETS and don't have electricity in their lofts so will have to reply on shitty battery packs and pay a forture for rings.

 

If it comes in I'm still using a clock won't be able to afford the cost of ets

[Dougie]

If it gets approved it does not mean that you have to use it. Entirely up to the individual.

[RoryTheRed]

Bring it on, stop the bloody arguements. I won't use it, i don't need to take the first ten in the club to boost my ego & it must be passed because of the disabled people. I'm in the sport for the sake of the sport, not for breeding/selling purposes so ets isn't for me.

 

At club level i do feel there should be a limit on the amount of birds you can clock, for open racing no limit, it's open to all so no limits.

[THE FIFER]

IF IT'S GOING TO BE BROUGHT IN I THINK IT WOULD HAVE TO BE FOR ALL, (WHO WANT TO USE IT)

[PIGEON_MAN]

I won't use it, i don't need to take the first ten in the club to boost my ego

HOW IS USING ETS GOING TO HELP YOU TAKE THE FIRST TEN IN THE CLUB,IT AMAZES ME HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE THIS CRAZY IDEA THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE WRECKING CLUBS BY CLOCKING LOADS OF BIRDS IN,YOU HAVE STILL GOT TO GET THEM HOME BEFORE  YOU CAN CLOCK  UM IN DONT MATTER WHAT CLOCKING SYSTEM YOU USE,AND IF SOMEBODY CLOCKS TEN IN BEFORE ME THEN THEY DESERVE

TO BE AWARDED THE POSITIONS.

[ribble]

i'd say it's as good as in now after reading the above from the GM,

and aint fussed either way.

[THE FIFER]

IF U HAVE THE BIRDS U WILL WIN, AND I KNOW THROUGH EXPERIENCE,  I DON'T WIN BECAUSE I DO NOT HAVE THE BIRDS, ETS IS NOT GOING TO HELP ME WIN, ITS ME AND THE BIRDS.WHICH ARE GOING TO GIVE ME THE WINNING ADVANTAGE,  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[peterpau]

Jed Jackson, would be one reason why I would be in favour.  First you have to get 'em. But what a pity had he not won 'cos of his dissability.

[Guest]

pigeon_man spot on there, id like to have 10 together every week!!I think we the fanciers should be given the choice wether we use it or not.

[Roland]

 

Paulo says

 

the above is the best option otherwise you are discriminating against poor people like me who won't be able to afford ETS and don't have electricity in their lofts so will have to reply on shitty battery packs and pay a forture for rings.

 

If it comes in I'm still using a clock won't be able to afford the cost of ets

 

Paulo THEY can run on batteries just the same. If no ones pinched them all out of the allotments...

[RoryTheRed]

I won't use it, i don't need to take the first ten in the club to boost my ego

HOW IS USING ETS GOING TO HELP YOU TAKE THE FIRST TEN IN THE CLUB,IT AMAZES ME HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE THIS CRAZY IDEA THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE WRECKING CLUBS BY CLOCKING LOADS OF BIRDS IN,YOU HAVE STILL GOT TO GET THEM HOME BEFORE  YOU CAN CLOCK  UM IN DONT MATTER WHAT CLOCKING SYSTEM YOU USE,AND IF SOMEBODY CLOCKS TEN IN BEFORE ME THEN THEY DESERVE

TO BE AWARDED THE POSITIONS.

 

 

Hi,

 

   Just look at all the adverts and write ups in RP & BHW to see the reports of the first five taken by X fancier on a regular basis ; also you see adverts stating that X bird was 8th Fed beaten by loftmates etc...Doesn't bother me if i was 16th and one flier had 15 in front of me; my concern is that club level is the grass roots of the sport, novices and returning ex members should have some encouragement given to them so they enjoy and progress within the sport; these fanciers don't need to be beaten by ten birds from one loft, eight from another and five from someone else. Open racing is for the experts within the game and they are entitled to clock as many as they want just because it is open to all, but club racing is for the backbone of the sport and this shouldn't be forgotten.

[Guest]

HI ALL I THINK IT SOULD BE INTRODUCED FOR ALL ITS UP TO U IF U WANT TO BUY IT WHY WORRY THIS AN HODDY JUST ENJOY YA BIRDS  FORGET THE REST

[johno]

excellent communications from the general manager. well put together and clearly stating the wha the proposed increase in membership was all about. the other content goes a long way to keeping the membership up to date with current issues and invites debate and research into the same issues. well done

[mealybar]

The biggest problem that we face in the UK for adopting ETS is changing the culture of our sport away from those angelic top 5 position cards.

 

Look at some of the results posted on the forum here from the USA. Notice a difference? They credit the top 10% of the birdage as to have 'acheived'. The same is true in Belgium and Holland, they have a 1 in 3, 1 in 5, etc. prize system. Whereas we have the top 5 cards in clubs no matter the size of the field.

 

I remember only a few weeks ago reading through the Fife Fed result from their YB Open, W. Hay, had something like 25 birds on the sheet, using ETS of course, but imagine if he didnt have the system, who would have been the loser? 1. Him of course, his team of birds had put up that great performance, but wouldnt have received the credit. 2. The other competitors; it might seem good for some people to get an artifically high position, but if I knew one of my competitors had a bird to beat me and didnt clock it, I'd feel a cheat for taking the position.

 

I think if people stopped thinking about themselves; I might get a bit further down the result; I might not get that pool money I got because the other guy didnt clock in; and looked at the result representation in a new way; why are you looking at only the top 5? If someone has taken the win, but not got another feather home has he really beaten you?

 

Of course it would be ideal if everyone were going to be able to use the ETS system, but in reality that will never happen, beacuse of loft setup, cost, etc reasons. But by the same token should everyone be on the Widowhood system, or should everyone use stall traps? Its about giving everyone the freedom of choice if they want to use the system, they dont have to!

[MsPigeon]

Of course it would be ideal if everyone were going to be able to use the ETS system, but in reality that will never happen, beacuse of loft setup, cost, etc reasons. But by the same token should everyone be on the Widowhood system, or should everyone use stall traps? Its about giving everyone the freedom of choice if they want to use the system, they dont have to!

 

Right On!! Well Said! But I disagree about the part that everyone owning one never happening. Where there is a will there is a way. Who in the sport or any hobby for that matter does not end up getting what they really want when it comes to their passions?

 

[Guest]

Can I just remind people that 'cost' and 'advantage with / disadvantage without' are no longer relevant issues?

 

Fit the whole club out with the ETS system of your choice: get a deal from your chosen supplier, and get a grant from the Lottery 'Awards for All' scheme.

 

 

[superstar]

Can I just remind people that 'cost' and 'advantage with / disadvantage without' are no longer relevant issues?

 

Fit the whole club out with the ETS system of your choice: get a deal from your chosen supplier, and get a grant from the Lottery 'Awards for All' scheme.

 

 

Easier said than done that! My club has applied twice for a grant and been turned down on both occasions. Lucky ones that do get it should pass on their secret.

[Guest]

 

Easier said than done that! My club has applied twice for a grant and been turned down on both occasions. Lucky ones that do get it should pass on their secret.

 

You are quite right and I hope you get help from some of the Scottish clubs that have been successful both in getting it done for the 2006 season, and the others applying for the 2007 season - and at least one Scottish Midland Federation club has already been successful in that, and has issued a 'thank you' to the awards scheme thro the BHW page.

 

Must 'reasons' must be (1) help the club to conform with Disability Act (2) assist an ageing membership (3) assist in the bird's welfare.

[me]

I am getting fed up with pro ETS guys using  disabled people as an excuse for the introduction of the system if you want to introduce it do it above board not using people less fortunate as ourselves as an excuse or for that matter by an entire committee  walking off a platform. How many seriously disabled people keep pigeons for god sake????????

 

If a club is set up to preserve traditional  "clock and thimble" pigeon racing end of story no problem what is big deal. NONE. People who are "Disabled" who keep pigeons manage to look after them, I know some of them and they would find it offensive to have themselves used in this way . A seriously disabled person would not be able to look after his birds properly anyway so we then enter the realms of thwe"Animal Welfare" brigade. If it comes in fine the disabled person can join a local club using ETS.Traditional flyers can be members of club promoting traditional  pigeon racing what is the problem????????????

[Poacher]

mmmm ETS its comming, so stop buying them cheap T3'S from Belgium, they dont want them because they are on ETS, SO ALL YOUR BUYING IS A PILE OF JUNK, LIKE THE BIRDS THAT ARE CONSTANTLY DUMPED HERE WITH FORIEGN RINGS ON

[me]

Agree with you Poacher but its not just people from Belgium who dump "junk" here check the "for sale" section on this site they seem to have a few willing helpers! I also agree that ETS is coming but that is because the "Unions" have cottoned on to the fact that there is a lot of money to be made from selling ETS rings. I can confirm there is nothing in "The Disability Act " that make traditional past times illegal if that is what Peter Bryant's lawyer told him he should get a second opinion and refuse to pay his first lawyers bill.They will be telling us next that the 100 meters has been banned.!! Absolute garbage timing the bird in is an integral part of the sport for the vast majority. This is the most blatant case of the tail wagging the dog I have seen for a very long time and I can think of one late pigeon fancier who would have gave me a skelp with their stick if I tried to make them a special case.

 

Fanciers disabled or otherwise who want to "move with the times" fine carry on. Fanciers who want to promote and preserve traditonial pigeon racing there is no court in the land going to object trust me!

[Beanz]

Putting up subs to £10 not a problem really but he states that transfers and postage would be free, a few years ago they put up rings so transfers would be free didn't last for very long before we had to pay again will this happen again?

[slatey]

like it or not its got to get passed so lets get on with it

[me]

" The President and VPs did suggest having a helper to assist a disabled fancier timing in but the very first time that the assistant does not turn up for any reason the disabled fancier will be discriminated against.  Provision of stall traps" etc - Peter Bryant

 

This is nonsense who "helps" the guy catch his birds to take them to the club to have them race marked at the moment Peter? Who helps scrape them out to ensure the disabled fanciers birds are not less healthy than the able bodied fanciers Peter?  Explain why timing in (IN THE TERMS OF THE ACT)is so very much more important then?

 

I REPEAT THERE IS NOTHING AND I MEAN NOTHING IN THE ACT THAT PROHIBITS A TRADITIONAL PAST TIME, BECAUSE FOR INSTANCE SOMEBODY WHO ENJOYED THAT PAST TIME BECAME A PARAPLYGIC AS THE RESULT OF A MOTOR VEHICLE ACCIDENT.

 

How could there be it is absolute stupidity to suggest otherwise. "Clock and Thimble" pigeon racing is a traditional past time going back more than a hundred years.Enjoy your past time don't let fools or bullies or lawyers stop you enjoying it!