As I see it!

[Guest slugmonkey]

I am the club secratary, race secratary, treasurer, and part time driver, hence my point too many are relying on the efforts of the few!

[tippler1]

I am the club secratary, race secratary, treasurer, and part time driver, hence my point too many are relying on the efforts of the few!

 

you should be worth your waight in gold to your club keep it up

[Guest slugmonkey]

I plan to move to a much larger club 1100 miles away within the next few years it shouldnt be too hard to get voted in !!!

[the wee red hens]

we are just waiting to see if we are accepted into one of our local clubs but after reading some of the things on this thread we are beginning to wonder if we have done the right thing and maybe should just have kept our birds as pets and never mind trying to race them if there is as many nasties out there :-/

[Fair Play]

The festering sores that are endemic in pigeon racing have been observed by most of us but we in the whole try to see the best in everyone but reading in different forums about fanciers being refused membership,Feds "alleged" thinking about  moving their boundaries,fanciers getting ripped off buying birds and the constant sniping that goes on in "most" clubs. I personally don't have the answers but have aligned myself to the quote "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing" Evil may be a bit strong but whoever phrased the quote did not realise the impact in this day and age

[Larry Lucas]

I would love to meet up with you sometime Larry and chew the fat over some of these issues, as I have always enjoyed your input over the years on posts whatever the topic

 

The mention of websites was a generalisation and the problems mentioned are in no way endemic to the internet. As you rightly said most of the problems lie at the very grass roots level of the sport and until such times as fanciers catch themselves on and treat each other with a bit of respect and conduct themselves with a modicum of dignity, then we are on a very slippery slope.

 

On the commercialisation front...what are we to do ?? Now as someone who has been making his own money since the age of eight, I have no problem regarding a little free enterprise, but when commercialisation is taken to the extreme by dubious methods are we to sit back and take it on the chin??

 

Give me your thoughts Larry as to how we could go forward in all this ..everyone has his theories as to how to take the sport forward and I sure have mine, though they might fill the rest of this forum   ;)

 

Thanks for the kind words, Ian. Although I am not sure of the value of what I sometimes offer.

 

I have worked with volunteer organizations and non-profit organizations for about 40 years. And whether it is a for-profit group or non-profit voluntary organization one issue is consistent about healthy organizations: good leadership. It is more than fair to generalize and say: "Healthy organizations have strong, fair leadership who do not blink when faced with difficulty; unhealthy organizations have unhealthy leadership." Leaders that have the best interest of the organization in mind and who don't pad their own egos or cater to their friends do well, as a rule of thumb.

 

When I began pigeon racing I was part of a new club that had Campbell Strange as its president. He was a weathy man, owned an internationally known commercial breeding stud -- and he loved to win! He held strong opinions about pigeon racing. You would think him to be the ideal candidate for the "class struggle" that Roland portrays. But he firmly guided the club toward policies and procedures that were as fair as they could be in pigeon racing, even if it did not favor him. No one was happier when someone else won a race. The race schedule changed direction each year: North, South, East, West. We had very good people in the club and we had some that were only out for themselves. What was best for the club came first. That club grew like wildfire because it had firm policies that were not created to favor any individuals.

 

I wish I had more to offer, Ian. It all comes down to getting the right people into the right chairs -- and then protecting them from the back-stabbers.

[Ian Gill]

You surely had a good grounding in the sport Larry , well how could you not have had, with a good Northern Irishman at the helm

 

Heres a question for you ..have you ever sat down and calculated just how much the global market in the pigeon sport is worth each year..now take it at an average spend of £20 per fancier on feed and additives alone  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[frank-123]

I plan to move to a much larger club 1100 miles away within the next few years it shouldnt be too hard to get voted in !!!

 

springhill florida?

[Ian Gill]

You surely had a good grounding in the sport Larry , well how could you not have had, with a good Northern Irishman at the helm

 

Heres a question for you ..have you ever sat down and calculated just how much the global market in the pigeon sport is worth each year..now take it at an average spend of £20 per fancier on feed and additives alone  

 

Sorry should have said £20 per week

 

 

[Roland]

we are just waiting to see if we are accepted into one of our local clubs but after reading some of the things on this thread we are beginning to wonder if we have done the right thing and maybe should just have kept our birds as pets and never mind trying to race them if there is as many nasties out there :-/

 

Hi, there.

The hard core and grass roots are brill, every club has a few gems, those willing to give and help freely, and really help one to enjoy this great sport.... unfortunately as in every walk of life there are those that think that everyone should just put into their coffers and be happy about it.

It is, when kept modest and sensible, undoubtedly the best sport / game in any town... or past time.

ls also great for youngster,  a true learning curve in their lives (and some fanciers stil I might hasten to add) who readily to love and respect a pet that is dependant, yet indepen of the owner.... yet has to be cared for and treat well... fed watered and etc. yet is totally free, free to fly the freedom of the skies. It allows one to be akin in a wonderful way with nature. Teaches responcility, fairness and that one will only get out what one puts in. Has the essence of innocence through and through, teaches great happiness, and sometime the uncalled for, yet necessary part of sorrow that one has to have to strengthen ones charactor in life! .... As long as greed and unfairness is ignored... but hopefully not by more f them packing up.

 

[Larry Lucas]

You surely had a good grounding in the sport Larry , well how could you not have had, with a good Northern Irishman at the helm

 

Heres a question for you ..have you ever sat down and calculated just how much the global market in the pigeon sport is worth each year..now take it at an average spend of £20 per fancier on feed and additives alone  

 

Over $23,000,000.00 USD for the United States alone, Ian. But on a per person basis not much incentive for those who might like to bleed some off for themselves. We have a hard time trying to find a supplier who thinks it is worth their time to bring in quality grains -- transport costs are excessive.

[Merlin]

The festering sores that are endemic in pigeon racing have been observed by most of us but we in the whole try to see the best in everyone but reading in different forums about fanciers being refused membership,Feds "alleged" thinking about  moving their boundaries,fanciers getting ripped off buying birds and the constant sniping that goes on in "most" clubs. I personally don't have the answers but have aligned myself to the quote "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing" Evil may be a bit strong but whoever phrased the quote did not realise the impact in this day and age

 

The above says it all for me,as long as fanciers who are understanding of the "ills" of our sport sit idly by and allow it to happen, it will never improve ,rather it will keep on what is to me the downward slope,there are too many issues to sort out,perhaps it would be better to level it down,and begin again,starting at the top with our leadership,imagine the genuine hard core of caring fanciers are still present,sadly their voices are not heard for one reason or another,regarding the many issues bedeviling this sport,apparently in ever increasing numbers

 

[Ian Gill]

 

Over $23,000,000.00 USD for the United States alone, Ian. But on a per person basis not much incentive for those who might like to bleed some off for themselves. We have a hard time trying to find a supplier who thinks it is worth their time to bring in quality grains -- transport costs are excessive.

 

 

Quite a staggering amount Im sure you will agree ..but when you take into concideration that there are roughly 1 million fanciers worldwide, you can see the gross figure per year runs to a Billion pounds(depending which side of the pond your Billion is on   )!!! And that is taking it at £20 ,when infact we know the average spend per head would far exceed that guideline.

 

Then we have the money spent on medicines and all the latest must have health and dietary supplements sold to us by the snake oil salesmen and you could possibly double that figure.

 

Add to this the total sales in pigeons and you can see it adds up to one hell of a global economy in the pigeon game!!

 

My point ??

 

How much of this filters its way back down into the sport ?? Virtually nothing at all !!!

 

Now if we are to indeed concider Pigeon racing as a sport, we have to make changes to that ..name me any other sport/hobby that spends that amount of money and receives nothing in return by way of sponsorship ??

 

What I am trying to say here Larry is that I am looking at the bigger picture in all this,I have no gripe with people selling pigeons or am I  trying to knock anyone who does(though if I feel someone should be exposed as a conman I will do my best to do that)

 

How can we change it ??  Well every man jack on this forum could make a difference when they visit their local corn merchant looking for sponsorship !! Catch him before he jumps into his Mercedes and ask for him to put something back into the game ...and if he doesnt take your business elsewhere !! Simple as  

[Roland]

Great Post Ian.

Our main two corn suppliers do sponsor our Fed somewhat. When I do Fund - Raisers they with sponsor a race say. Weetabix used to sponsor some distance races... And their one time owner bought most of the Cups etc. Also the Gold cup.

But in reality what is £25 for a sponsor? well... Thought that counts

[Larry Lucas]

Ian, the problem I see is there is no monolithic entity that is receiving all this money. There are thousands and thousands of small businesses and individuals trying to squeeze out a few extra coins to keep the wolf away. Most of the commercial individuals are small potatoes indeed. Even the large companies are few and far between and pigeon related services in those cases are not a major source of income for them -- if at all. For example, Bayer, the producer of medicines for animals and mankind. It is only a happy accident that Baytril works with pigeons and that doesn't factor into the financial bottom line of Bayer. Small businessmen and individuals trying to sell a few things that fanciers need or want. Where do they factor into the scenario? Now, there are many categories. What about the larger breeding studs and the international grain suppliers? Follow the money, some of it is not local.

[Ian Gill]

Forget about the Bayers of this world or any of the other pharmaceutical companies because as you say, we would not even register a blip on their radar.I was not even thinking of them  

 

But you mention the fact that there are thousands of small businesses supplying our needs and they may indeed be small potatoes as you say but they are all supplied by a very limited number of companies!!

 

Take the grain suppliers..a very short list of companies supplying the needs of perhaps 90% of the worlds pigeon feeds and all through a network of the very "small business men" you mentioned.Now each and everyone who is a part of this "food chain" make a profit,so if we start with the local guys, then surely it will have a viral effect and work its way to the very top.

 

Let me give you an example ...Northern Ireland is a very small country with a population of approx 1.5 million people and out of that there would be around 3,000 fanciers. Now supplying those 3,000 fanciers are three main corn merchants and at least one of those has gained millionaire status through pigeon supplies !!!! Great for them I say but when you take into concideration that their input back into the sport they have made their fortune from is a Christmas Draw for some form of electrical gadget to the value of about 6 bags of corn :(

 

This isnt the crux of what ails the pigeon sport Larry, but its a factor and until addressed along with all the other issues, it will continue to quicken the demise of pigeon racing as we know it.

[Larry Lucas]

Ian, there are quite a few grain suppliers on this side as well, but most of them are smaller businesses who buy their grains from brokers and they blend the mixes themselves. Most of the brokers probably don't even know where what they are selling goes. Purina might be an exception to that.

 

Is anyone illegitimately making a profit, gouging fanciers when it is not necessary, or are they following market costs and passing them on to the consumer? If they are providing a good product at fair value, do they owe the sport more than that? Finding a provider who gives good value and service is a blessing in-and-of-itself, whether they give anything else to the sport or not, I would think. Here if the company does not provide good value they are soon undercut by someone who will -- good old cut-throat capitalism! ;D ;D However, many of these small companies provide supplies for one loft races, etc. in exchange for the advertising exposure. Quid Pro Quo always helps raise market share.

 

I think halting the decline of the sport could be better served by other things instead of a pigeon fraternity form of redistribution of the wealth. A few fanciers in Arizona approached the public school and offered to set up a small loft as a school project. It went over very well indeed. The national organization could hire a Public Relations Director -- much more value to that than to a General Director. The ARPU here hired a Washington lobbiest to champion legislative causes that affect the sport. It has been worth every penny. We might not like to think about it because of the implications, but paramutual betting on one loft races could inject a great deal of money into the grassroots level of the sport. For example, in Minnesota the casinos gave large monetary grants to local non-profit groups to improve various sports. Paramutual betting with a mandated percentage going to the sport (much like horse racing and charities) could raise the profile of the sport and provide local level interest. As I suggested above, all it requires is having the right leadership in the right chairs.

[Merlin]

You would have to begin to sort out our own house first,and as Larry states " right leadership in right chairs"my own slant on this would be A union Sec,who works in conjunction with regional Secs,with clubs formed and existing on a geographical basis,with clubs similar club rules set almost in stone,especially the one relating to ungentlemanly conduct,no new clubs forming for reasons willy nilly, with the leaderships eyes,set on the bigger picture at all times,all the while the onus being on raising the profile of the Sport,its a feasibility to have one outlet in each area providing all Pigeon foods and accessories,medicines etc,ideally clubs would order feeding in bulk,curtailing most of the middle mans profits,there is so much which could be done,"if we had the right people on the right chairs"there are so many issues that need addressing,why didn't the unions buy in bulk from one manufacturer those E.T.S. systems, which surely would make them a cheaper viability for fanciers,with also possibility of some profits back into Union funds,what are they doing about something likewise with E.T.S.rings,which are now an annual requirement.

[Roland]

Very good post!

 

Merlin the very first sentence of your's say's it all. Until they are bound, and do actually show, have to show the votes on each and any proposition we will struggle I believe.

Love as many £1's as delegates etc. have gone and disregarded the members choice and voted 'To Please'!

I'd be on a permnat holiday lol.

[dorinmusceleanu]

Hello,

> I am from Romania

> I want to ask somebody, or help me someone. A friend give me 3

> pigeons. 1 pigeon with the ring series NL 1948863 -2008 and Bricon;

> the second pigeons BELG has ring series 5094204-2008 and Benzing,  and

> 3th pigeons NL 1327709- 2008.

>  

> I hope somebody can help me were a can find  this pigeons. ( link,

> adress ) Thank you verry much.

>  

[dorinmusceleanu]

dorin.musceleanu@brokerhouse.ro or dorinmusceleanu@yahoo.com

 

Thank you