Non Racing Fanciers Selling Pigeons

[swilcox]

Rather than rumble on and hijacking another thread i thought it would be interesting to ask this question.

 

Do you think its better to buy off a pigeon fancier who races and produces results or off a stud who does not race and collects well bred birds of certain strains and trends.

 

I have flown pigeon for nearly 30 years since i was 6. for my first few years my dad and i would buy pigeons that were easily available, from studs and the like. Most were rubbish until i purchased a pair from Haywood Lofts (mr & mrs Kozack) i think. I call him and told him of the combine winner i had bred and he said well that does suprise me the father of the hen won this for me and the brother etc etc. I then changed tack and started buying from proven fanciers with real results and i must admit ive had stronger stock ever since.

 

When myself and Raymond started to look at having a stud (and i hate the word stud) we both agreed that racing must be our priority and even though we both have moved house we have got the birds on the road and it really has tought us alot about our birds and we had a few suprises at just what turned out to be the best breeders.

 

I now believe it imparative that a seller tries and tests his own lines every year before offering them to others.

 

Views welcome

[kelly tom]

I always buy of racing lofts or studs who race. I would never buy on pedigree alone of non racing stock.

[Roland]

Many feather merchants do fly and sell because to sell if you're racing you must be winning.

Remember a great name that started back up and continued to win well, set the place ablaze in fact. Then when he had to move he stopped racing because as he said 'Even novices would beat my new location... and you must be winning if racing to sell'.

He'l tell you that himself. He'll also tell you the birds that actually made he name in the first place were not the ones he bought in big time but were leon boers. Further he says 'Why I started back, to prove these new birds were the real deal.... and they were'!

A very honest feather merchant I guess.

[frank-123]

no guarantee buying from racing stud or breeding only stud

better chance with a racing stud

now if a racing stud has a good season i would imagine the prices would rise and fall with performance

i guess its all about feed back to the non racing  studs whether the birds are breeding the goods and if they are then they don't need to race to keep the prices high it would be word of mouth from the buyers

 

i would buy from people who race pigeons  local would be better if possible

[Guest]

i was going to post but this thread has gone to the dogs already, could have been a good thread Stuart.

                  all the best amanda

[frank-123]

i was going to post but this thread has gone to the dogs already, could have been a good thread Stuart.

                  all the best amanda

 

please post amanda get it back on track don't let  the chat spoil it

thanks chat gone ;D

[OLDYELLOW]

Frank Sheader aint flown a feather in years but hes a good stockman and breeds good birds and at reasonable prices , it doesnt bother me one bit if birds come from  a non flying loft or non flying stud they soon get sorted out in the basket , two champion pigeons can breed as much bad pigeons as two non champion pigeons and champions can be bred from two adverage birds , but as a general thing i think if you can get from a performing loft then you'l pay a little more with less failures , so can be cheaper in the long run  

[grizzle_hen]

please keep this thread on topic without reducing it to petty tit for tat

[Guest]

please keep this thread on topic without reducing it to petty tit for tat

 

My apologies for contributing to the "tit for tat"

[Guest]

When myself and Raymond started to look at having a stud (and i hate the word stud) we both agreed that racing must be our priority and even though we both have moved house we have got the birds on the road and it really has tought us alot about our birds and we had a few suprises at just what turned out to be the best breeders.

 

Views welcome

 

Stuart I think the above paragraph carries the answer for me. You are when buying birds relying to a great extent on the knowledge the seller has of his strain. There are so many people now that sell birds from desired strains which they purchased purely to sell, you see them making claims like I have a direct son of the clown x carry on performing. I would agree with you 100% I would rather buy from you and Raymond anyday because you are testing your stock (I'd rather pick them myself though ;D).

However you can't tar everyone to the same brush and I will mention a guy and I hope he won't take offence , who is the exception. Alun Maull of South Wales is one of the finest pigeon men I have met and a pigeon fanatic. When racing what ever distance he chose to race at, he was at the top. Now sadly he does not race because of the sparrowhawk, peregrine and the worst of the lot the Goshawk. They all live immeditely behind his loft in the forestry. the similar forestry belt that has made R O Jones of Resolven give up (todays BHW advert). BUT even though he does not race he breeds winners for fun for others at national level and he has an encyclopedic knowledge of the sport and in particular the Janssen strain, you can be safe in the knowledge of his ability.

As a general rule Stuart I think you are spot on. But there are some gems about like Alun who should not be discounted.

[swilcox]

Some one on this thread has something to hide and because i have posted something close to the truth he turns it into a joke.

 

Raymond Moleveld won 1st National (All Holland) 37,239birds he timed at 4.40am a fair distance in front from Saint Vincent 666miles, bred the bird, his parents and even one of the g-parents, shove that tune up your jumper and play it.

 

We fly with pride.

 

Stuart

 

Oh happier days

[joe61]

sorry stuart i seem to have bent the barrel of your gun im off now bye

 

oh happy days

[Guest]

i was going to post but this thread has gone to the dogs already, could have been a good thread Stuart.

                  all the best amanda

 

Hi Amanda, let's hear your post please, I think this is a very interesting line of thought

Thanks

Alan

[swilcox]

Of coarse there are people who dont race and breed winners and some of these show great expertese in what they do, but as a general rule racing families will be more reproductive than none racing families.

 

Im not trying to draw a line here just a guide line.

 

Another question, what does these none racing fanciers put back into our sport???

[Guest]

Some one on this thread has something to hide and because i have posted something close to the truth he turns it into a joke.

 

Raymond Moleveld won 1st National (All Holland) 37,239birds he timed at 4.40am a fair distance in front from Saint Vincent 666miles, bred the bird, his parents and even one of the g-parents, shove that tune up your jumper and play a tune

 

We fly with pride.

 

Stuart

 

Oh happier days

 

Stuart I've missed what's gone on. But for my part I would second that and say I too would be very proud of your performances. I know we may differ in views but you have my respect.

 

[Guest]

Of coarse there are people who dont race and breed winners and some of these show great expertese in what they do, but as a general rule racing families will be more reproductive than none racing families.

 

Im not trying to draw a line here just a guide line.

 

Another question, what does these none racing fanciers put back into our sport???

 

That's a tough one to answer and I won't try I suppose the easy way to look at that is to scour the charity sales that go on on sites like this and in the BHW I'm sure the same names (a minority possibly) will come up fairly often.

 

 

[frank-123]

Of coarse there are people who dont race and breed winners and some of these show great expertese in what they do, but as a general rule racing families will be more reproductive than none racing families.

 

Im not trying to draw a line here just a guide line.

 

Another question, what does these none racing fanciers put back into our sport???

 

lots do put back into the sport via charity sales yourself included

[REDCHEQHEN]

 

we had a few suprises at just what turned out to be the best breeders.

 

 

 

this part of your post intrigues me

as our best breeders so far have been rubbish racers

 

Have you found that?

[OLDYELLOW]

Of coarse there are people who dont race and breed winners and some of these show great expertese in what they do, but as a general rule racing families will be more reproductive than none racing families.

 

Im not trying to draw a line here just a guide line.

 

Another question, what does these none racing fanciers put back into our sport???

 

well which non flying fanciers do you mean ? the ones that sell for profit ? or the ones that keep birds for fun ? or the ones that are producing winners for others as cant race due to the bird of prey problems ? many types on non flying fanciers

[swilcox]

Hi Albear yes there are some good guys and if you look at the shear size of investment put in by Frank Sheader, Premier Stud etc then they deserve there success and i know both of these guys pull there wieght.

 

Racing is still king and its the pilar off success and i think it should be everyones priority.

 

Stuart

[frank-123]

stuart you mention raymonds bird that took 1st national holland fantastic performance

i guess he has birds the same way bred daughters,sons brothers and sisters grand children all who have raced?  or has some just been put in the stock loft without proving themselves

not all racers are good breeders although they have a much better chance of breeding the goods

[Guest]

well all i was going to say is. you can pay a hell of a lot of money out on all the latest in vouge pigeons. They can come from the best in the world. BUT unless you the fancier knows how to get the best out of them, how to feed and treat them, they will be worthless and useless.

When i had my first season on my own, i think i did more wrong than right, but im learning, im just glad i never paid for the birds in the early days.......amanda

[swilcox]

Your right rose good breeders dont always make good racers.

 

We have a hen from 2005 she is a dtr of shady, we didnt think she had what it takes to make it as a breeder so was in line for the bin but we raised 4 ybs, i had two and Raymond had two. All 4 have raced with distingtion and now that hen looks a little different in our eyes thanks to the basket.

[frank-123]

i remember when i started there was i guy in ayrshire who has an advert in the bhw nearly ever week stating the same performance

i spoke to a friend who told me he has never raced a pigeon in 25 years and his advert has never changed

but i nearly fell in the novice trap

[swilcox]

Hi Bart

 

Yes on the strength of there brothers and sisters performances pigeons have been put into the breeding loft but there children are raced and then they can be established as breeders or not.