Why are the continentals way out in front of UK

[Michael J Burden]

Well I know we in the UK have some of the best and worst racing pigeons in the World. Some can compete with those Continentals but yet I still do not believe that hte best UK get the reconition.

I have been looking at the PIPa site which the link is above and enjoy looking at those birds they have for sale. There forum is poor compard to our UK based sites. There sale sites are superior though.

 

They do know how to market their birds. The write ups, the pictures etc are second to none. I wish I had a stock loft because I would be bidding on some of those birds. The adverts are so alluring. They get bids from around the world.

 

How can this once GREAT Country get in amongst it too?

 

http://www.pipa.be/

[just ask me]

we recentlly had a post on the same lines sure we buy most of our birds off them anyway and before the comments come in yes some are crap but all in all the belg and dutch are still tops

[Chris Little]

The continentals are no better than us.

 

They are however masters of spin in advertising

[Guest]

aggree chris and we have more than our fair share of them in this country

[just ask me]

The continentals are no better than us.

 

They are however masters of spin in advertising

the belg are the masters in breeding and i dont think there masters in advertiseing mostlly its the sales pll that put the spin on at the end of the day the market is the way it is for a reason

 

[Michael J Burden]

So why are the likes of Kirklands surplus birds, Chris Gordons surplus birds Brian Shepherds birds etc not on that PIPA sale site with bibbers bidding from around the globe?

 

PS I am sure there are many more names which could have been quoted along with the above.

[OLDYELLOW]

well once we stop buying birds from abroad and stop buying there pigeons , and raced more on a club bases inland and more national based at the channel then there would be more worthy results and if you wanted to specialise at a certain channel point / distance you wouldnt just get one atempt or two attemps a season then we would vastly improve our birds to the level on the continent , as for write ups on people most are done for friends and not the winning top lofts most of the time , and this is mainly done out of jelousy of there winning abilitys and stockmanship   i have noticed only one British Fancier on the PIPA.BE site , this is obviously not a true reflection of the fancy in the UK perhaps this is where we are going wrong , we should be starting to refer to birds in our lofts as our own familys as they do abroad with reference to there original strain , as once they left the loft of origin they have also lost there stocksmanship and wont be breeding to what they would of paired them too . Then we will see pigeons for what they truely are , good or bad , on the continent they dont own one strain or two strains they just buy the pigeons from the champions or as close as they can afford , look at Busheart he bought birds from all the champions a vast gene pool and as such probably the second best strain of heinz 57 to hit the Uk , number 1 would be in my opinion would be Jansens but no pure strain just 2 that complemented each other the wegge and the gits and later added from the likes of Fabry ectra , so forget the strains and buy the best you can afford the more diverse the gene pool the more chances of producing the champions of tomorrow , and if truth be known i think we have the best birds in the world   improve the structure of racing and we will reap the benifits of the markets of tomorrow  

[Guest]

because they get more over here michael without having to pay big amounts to a third party

[just ask me]

So why are the likes of Kirklands surplus birds, Chris Gordons surplus birds Brian Shepherds birds etc not on that PIPA sale site with bibbers bidding from around the globe?

 

PS I am sure there are many more names which could have been quoted along with the above.

 

sure aint bian shepherds crossed with thone birds  well the legend was anyway im not saying there are bad birds in Britain just saying the belg are still a bot ahead ill put up  the same question as i put up on the last thread

 

1  5 last  rpra sprint champions  what breed where they and id like to bet in most cases there are belg birds in there peds

 

2 top international results of fanicers flying into britain and breed they were i bet there foreign birds in there peds too

 

if nothing else it be a bit of fun finding out surely between us all here we can out answers to these questions

[Roland]

Better still is to ask why the 'Continentals' changed the PAU international!!!

They have , warmth, often wind and no dog legging etc.

And a great story is the one when a Belguim bird and a british one were flying way a head of the rest and they wished each other sportingly good luck. 'Good luck'! says the british bird.

'Same to laughs the Belgim birds... you will need it.... I have a little warmth and a straight line, and wil be home why you are over the colder winds of the channel etc'  etc. etc.

Knew that Pau wouldn't last long... especially when we had such good results. Theyir attitude is no different, let alone better that the Clubs' feds etc and our National concerns with claiming and having every advantage.

A wise ole fancier once commented 'They breed the biurds, but we make them great here'. Antwerp. swoop in i their thousands flying at head hieght etc. etc. JMO

[Michael J Burden]

A lot is as oldyellow states, down to how we organise and race our birds. Too many fragmented organisations little or no co-operation between feds, nationals etc

[just ask me]

right maybe this one can be answered what are the top 5 performances into the UK from internationals

[OLDYELLOW]

i gave one on another thread   but as most marking stations stop in south yourkshire or beyond the Humber there not very well supported or accessable by all so results from these would only provide a very small percent of what could indeed be accomplished by the fanciers of our once great land

[just ask me]

but u not think 5 would give a better view

[Guest IB]

A lot is as oldyellow states, down to how we organise and race our birds. Too many fragmented organisations little or no co-operation between feds, nationals etc

 

Apart from a year or so, I did not have pigeons between 1967 - 2000. I decided to start up again, and found wholesale change.

 

I couldn't quite understand the UK race organisation, e.g. 'Midlands National' was a contradiction in terms to me, but the biggest change I noticed was who was flying what - I did not recognise any of the strain names mentioned in the BHW reports.

 

So we don't have big UK names competing in 'big UK Nationals' with their own 'UK strain names'. In my opinion that's the field / shop window that's missing for UK pigeons. So you can't really advertise something you don't have ...

 

But John Clements for one is at pains to point out that the Belgian Nationals have a different scoring system too? So maybe there is no common  parameters for comparison between the continental flyers and us?

 

[thunderboult]

So why are the likes of Kirklands surplus birds, Chris Gordons surplus birds Brian Shepherds birds etc not on that PIPA sale site with bibbers bidding from around the globe?

 

PS I am sure there are many more names which could have been quoted along with the above.

 

i believe it's because the birds are flown in competition over here, and as already mentioned their's a load of smaller competition's/organisations over here ,where as on the continent the big names are flying in all the internationals and scoring every year.    

[OLDYELLOW]

no it wouldnt reflect the birds in this country in a fair view , rember on the continent they can near enough choose  whichever race point each week to send  , there birds to , this next example is a bad one but shows you how a family can develope quick using the continental method , Albert Marselles only ever sent to 2 race points to develope his birds becoming the sprint master of Belgium in our old bird programme he would get 2 races a year but a similar story for channel birds you at best get a few channel races into prove your birds each year but if you had the choice you would probably fly more from a point to specialise at your choosen distance   so if we had more choice and a more national out look im sure we could and would lead the way  

[thunderboult]

right maybe this one can be answered what are the top 5 performances into the UK from internationals

 

i've only had birds since 2004 so i don't know a lot but in recent years brian sheppard as been 1st+2nd dax international, mark gilbert as been 1st international dax and dave posey was 1st international hens dax . i think someone else had a good 1 from dax when brian won but not sure of name crowley+green or cooper's maybe both. the problem over here is we're not set up for international racing and not enough long distance fancier's over have a go, until that changes we'll always struggle.

[OLDYELLOW]

 

i've only had birds since 2004 so i don't know a lot but in recent years brian sheppard as been 1st+2nd dax international, mark gilbert as been 1st international dax and dave posey was 1st international hens dax . i think someone else had a good 1 from dax when brian won but not sure of name crowley+green or cooper's maybe both. the problem over here is we're not set up for international racing and not enough long distance fancier's over have a go, until that changes we'll always struggle.

 

more would have ago if more basketing stations were allowed and suited those flying further and can get there birds picked up most of these so called nationals are inexcessable by the fanciers that wish to fly in them   and some you have to pre pay before you send im sorry but i selected the day i basket not 2 weeks before they could be hawked lost smashed up anything in a period of two weeks  

[thunderboult]

no it wouldnt reflect the birds in this country in a fair view , rember on the continent they can near enough choose  whichever race point each week to send  , there birds to , this next example is a bad one but shows you how a family can develope quick using the continental method , Albert Marselles only ever sent to 2 race points to develope his birds becoming the sprint master of Belgium in our old bird programme he would get 2 races a year but a similar story for channel birds you at best get a few channel races into prove your birds each year but if you had the choice you would probably fly more from a point to specialise at your choosen distance   so if we had more choice and a more national out look im sure we could and would lead the way  

 

just adding a bit to your reply oldyellow, i've got 1 of the around antwerp videos with dave allen and he's at the long distance flyer's jimmy brands(i think) and he shows him his race programme and dave can't believe it. he has about 15 races of 500 mls or more every week of the season.

[thunderboult]

 

more would have ago if more basketing stations were allowed and suited those flying further and can get there birds picked up most of these so called nationals are inexcessable by the fanciers that wish to flying in them   and some you have to pre pay before you send im sorry but i selected the day i basket not 2 weeks before they could be hawked lost smashed up anything in a period of two weeks  

 

i agree with you there oldyellow, and that's why our whole setup needs changing.

[OLDYELLOW]

 

i agree with you there oldyellow, and that's why our whole setup needs changing.

 

i've been wanting a more nationalised system for years but them who have agained by keeping one basketing station wont let another open in fear of a true national been formed  

[Roland]

I.B. says and I quote '... So we don't have big UK names competing in 'big UK Nationals' with their own 'UK strain names'. In my opinion that's the field / shop window that's missing for UK pigeons. So you can't really advertise something you don't have ...

More to the point is that the 'Name / Strain' sell the product.

Now the mere fact that a British flyer has cultivated a great distance strain, and honed it to great precision, may well give the fancier a bit of merit... but he will sell more with a Belguim  / Holland / Netherlands whatever name. That is a sad reality.

One must understand too, that the climate, and roads etc. - especially ireland - are far more ardeous

than what most continent birds have to live with and attest to. So even if and when a 'Continental' strain is cultivated, it is and has been done by the Brit! No two ways about that.

Like the Brizilians / etc. in football, playing the same weather, hard pitches etc. in heat. they take time to acclimatise... possibly would never live in an old british devision. Yes we have acclimatise- the continentals to there 'Game' and not the other way around. May be fool hardy on an international stage not to.

I pigeons we have to adapted the birds to our climate, race program... and can't evaluate, or race the same as the continentals do. But bet your bottom dollar our birds have a hardier balance and temprement, and better on the Hard day and distance. They have had to mould to it!

[Roland]

The worst part is only a few bother to contest. Likewise our  So called nationals are a joke in reality when Feds, Combines etc. send vastly superior numberss ! And that is the crying shame. No incentive here to waste money, time and effort bolstering others coffers. BETTER SPENT ON FEED AND TRAINING!

[Roland]

 

i've been wanting a more nationalised system for years but them who have agained by keeping one basketing station wont let another open in fear of a true national been formed  

 

Very true, and sadly to the detrimental to the sport, the fanciers and the very essence and merits of our Fancy / Hobby / Sport what have you!