Ivermectin

[Guest IB]

I think you'll find Ivermecin isn't a sure proof way of getting rid of worms.

 

I've posted on that one repeatedly, Tony but nobody seems to be picking it up. Basically insecticide only, and there's better and safer, from permethrin to garlic water.

 

The vet David Parson's website says he can't guarantee that it will clear worms, and there's other bits-and-bobs including problems in the farming industry.

 

[sammy]

The thread is on ivermectin and it might help to stop a mo and consider why you use it.

 

There are lots of urban legends surrounding its use on the anti-hawk front - is that why you use it? - but for me the sucker-punch on that front was when I visited a falconer website only to find they use ivermectin on their birds of prey too.

 

Ivermectin was also prescription only in UK but was widely available 'under the counter'. Is that why you use it, cos it was something you weren't supposed to use, but could get hold of? Tuff, cos it's been legally available now for a couple of years, and readily available in proper pre-measured safe doses for pigeons.

 

The word on the research front tho is that it is now a spent force. All those years of 'pouring it on' for whatever reason (even in farming) has achieved the result we all know and have come to expect - worms are resistant to it.

 

So you are now left with the insecticide-only bit. At the mo I rely on it for that and for one group of insects only - those that live below the skin, e.g. quill mite - and only as a last resort when no other treatment works.

 

The recognised safe insecticide for pigeons is permethrin. You will find all the household sprays contain it, whether its for wasps, flies, ants etc. As far as I know, it has no side effects in pigeons, tho it is lethal to all aquatic life.

 

 

think this posts says it all ,another way of conning us mugs out of our money

 

[Guest IB]

 

IB just for clarity nobody can say it's 100% A ok to use on pigeons. In my experience it had not affected my pigeons that's not to say that someone else might have an adverse reaction.

 

Was not referring to your post in particular; there have been discussions on this on here for years; it was always a case of do this, do that, never what you cannot do.

 

Firstly, from the harka-mectin leaflet, the correct dose is 0.35% weight / volume.

 

Secondly, the don'ts:-

do not use during the main moulting season

do not use during the hatching period

do not use on any other species other than those named on this leaflet. Serious reactions including deaths have been reported after application (of ivermectin) to dogs (especially Collies, Old English Sheepdogs and related breeds, tortoises and turtles

avoid contact with (your) skin, eyes and mouth

wash hands thoroughly with soap and water after applying this product

 

 

- and this is is the one we know is designed for pigeons.  

[Guest IB]

 

Firstly, from the harka-mectin leaflet, the correct dose is 0.35% weight / volume.

 

Secondly, the don'ts:-

do not use during the main moulting season

do not use during the hatching period

do not use on on YBs less than 8 weeks old

do not use on any other species other than those named on this leaflet. Serious reactions including deaths have been reported after application (of ivermectin) to dogs (especially Collies, Old English Sheepdogs and related breeds, tortoises and turtles

avoid contact with (your) skin, eyes and mouth

wash hands thoroughly with soap and water after applying this product

 

 

- and this is is the one we know is designed for pigeons.  

 

Sorry, missed one (bold) and ran out of time for edit.

[just ask me]

this product does not work on Percy ive seen falconers use it on there falcons they use dead chicks  full stop all we are doing by using it is worming the falcons as more falcons die of worms its unreal they have very little immune system when it comes o worms any falconer will tell u that while a pigeon will live with worms it really puts a falcon on the back step and id like to see any proof any where where it does work i bet it will be hard to find as i said ive seen falconers giving it too falcons there are other methods and i repeat this does not work

[jimmy white]

used ivermectin many times ,, never did any harm to the birds ,,[well the pigeons[

[peterpau]

I like Ivermectin. A local vet made it up to suit our birds, all our club used it. I like collies too but have heard the two don't mix.

[Guest Freebird]

Aint it weird it can kill a collie but not a wee pigeon.

[Guest]

 

Was not referring to your post in particular; there have been discussions on this on here for years; it was always a case of do this, do that, never what you cannot do.

 

Firstly, from the harka-mectin leaflet, the correct dose is 0.35% weight / volume.

 

Secondly, the don'ts:-

do not use during the main moulting season

do not use during the hatching period

do not use on any other species other than those named on this leaflet. Serious reactions including deaths have been reported after application (of ivermectin) to dogs (especially Collies, Old English Sheepdogs and related breeds, tortoises and turtles

avoid contact with (your) skin, eyes and mouth

wash hands thoroughly with soap and water after applying this product

 

 

- and this is is the one we know is designed for pigeons.  

 

Hi IB when I posted I appreciated you weren't specifically referring to me. I reiterate though in my experience it has helped me with my hawk problems. Maybe because of the amount I use i.e. 3 drops every three weeks. The bottom line IB is when you are being hammered by hawks you try anything to fight back. If you have a better alternative then please tell me. If not I'm afraid you're falling on deaf ears......... if you can help however I would be most grateful

[steve]

i used to use this

and will be using it again when i find it

whats the going rate

cos i seen some silly prices

i had a mate used to get mine for around a tenner (but prices i have seen have been more than this) i know inflation etc (but why is anything thats for pigeons cost the earth)

[Guest IB]

 

Hi IB when I posted I appreciated you weren't specifically referring to me. I reiterate though in my experience it has helped me with my hawk problems. Maybe because of the amount I use i.e. 3 drops every three weeks. The bottom line IB is when you are being hammered by hawks you try anything to fight back. If you have a better alternative then please tell me. If not I'm afraid you're falling on deaf ears......... if you can help however I would be most grateful

 

Well I've pointed out before that I believe evolution has provided pigeonkind with its very own deterrent, an 'eat-me-and-you'll-die' survival strategy.

 

History tells us that the rock dove and percy lived cheek-by-jowl on same cliffs. Nothing preys on percy, so how did the rock dove species not only survive but proliferate and extend into towns and countryside?

 

Pigeon species carry trichomonas to which they are largely immune, but hawk species have little immunity to them. Falconers call it FROUNCE and to combat it, they do not feed pigeon head or crop to their birds.

 

We know that there are several species of trichomonas, not all of them deadly enough to cause full-blown canker in our birds. Yet it is reported they can infect, and kill hawks in 7 days.

 

 

 

 

[Larry Lucas]

Ivermectin is Ivermectin whether it is packaged and labeled and provided printed leaflet for horses, cows, dogs, pigs, pigeons, etc. etc. etc. It is all the same chemical product. The important thing is to get the right dosage for the pigeons. I use three drops of the injectable bovine variety (1%) down the throat which provides the right dosage for racing pigeons. It does a good job of clearing hair worms and external parasites (mites, pigeon flies, feather lice, etc), but is limited in its effectiveness against round worms. These days I prefer to use Moxidectin in the water for worming and spray Permethrin for external parasites, but still on occasion I use Ivermectin for external parasite control. In the area I live now pigeon flies bring Malaria to the birds, so not treating is not an option.

 

 

[Guest]

 

Well I've pointed out before that I believe evolution has provided pigeonkind with its very own deterrent, an 'eat-me-and-you'll-die' survival strategy.

 

History tells us that the rock dove and percy lived cheek-by-jowl on same cliffs. Nothing preys on percy, so how did the rock dove species not only survive but proliferate and extend into towns and countryside?

 

Pigeon species carry trichomonas to which they are largely immune, but hawk species have little immunity to them. Falconers call it FROUNCE and to combat it, they do not feed pigeon head or crop to their birds.

 

We know that there are several species of trichomonas, not all of them deadly enough to cause full-blown canker in our birds. Yet it is reported they can infect, and kill hawks in 7 days.

 

 

 

 

IB with respect I do not have the laboratory conditions to identify or if you know the strains to cultivate trichomonas in my birds. Canker is a  killer of pigeons too and  my experience is that when my birds have canker they perform far less well than when they have ivermec

[Guest Freebird]

 

Hi IB when I posted I appreciated you weren't specifically referring to me. I reiterate though in my experience it has helped me with my hawk problems. Maybe because of the amount I use i.e. 3 drops every three weeks. The bottom line IB is when you are being hammered by hawks you try anything to fight back. If you have a better alternative then please tell me. If not I'm afraid you're falling on deaf ears......... if you can help however I would be most grateful

Hi Albear. Are the birds being taken in the air or off the loft?

 

 

[ohiogsp]

How can this kill a hawk? I give it to my pigeons right down the throat. If you put enough on a pigeon to kill anything that ate it, your pigeon would be dead first. As someone alse said it would just deworm the hawk. I also give this to my dogs every month .5cc per 10lbs for heart worms (it is the active ingreadent in it anyway). It does work as a good wormer for pigeons 2 drops down the throat. The reason the dog died that was said before is because all hearding breeds are alergic to it.

[Guest]

Hi Albear. Are the birds being taken in the air or off the loft?

 

 

Come now frebird you know the answer to that, you think I don't know me percy from me sparrow

There's rarely a training toss where they don't come back split and someone injured (particularly yb)

[Guest Freebird]

 

Come now frebird you know the answer to that, you think I don't know me percy from me sparrow

There's rarely a training toss where they don't come back split and someone injured (particularly yb)

Sorry Albear this was intended for original poster Gill Bros.

 

 

[Guest]

No probs, it's a huge problem and happy to listen to any help

[Guest]

How can this kill a hawk? I give it to my pigeons right down the throat. If you put enough on a pigeon to kill anything that ate it, your pigeon would be dead first. As someone alse said it would just deworm the hawk. I also give this to my dogs every month .5cc per 10lbs for heart worms (it is the active ingreadent in it anyway). It does work as a good wormer for pigeons 2 drops down the throat. The reason the dog died that was said before is because all hearding breeds are alergic to it.

 

Allergic to a constituent part as is percy in large enough dosage, how I don't know but does that matter?

[Roland]

Now, one moment IB is saying that it can't afect Falcon etc. and can Pigeons, then it can harm dogs etc. All different species having different result.

Now two points are clear... Pour on IS Different from the norm, and Vets would much rather you use their (Pricy) methods etc. and NO Falconer etc. will ever admit that it can affect them. It has to be pour on, simple and straight.Area's are having sucess with it, and never heard yet any detrimental effects on pigeons. Now the main thing is, if it just does the worming etc. etc. and MAY, just may, have a beneficial affect on other species to our liking, then it makes common sence to use it. If hawks love, so beit it, if they don't so what! We will still be getting some worthwhile results.

Every pigeon should have some. And further Falcons don't get over Cankers.... Pity the ferals don't suffer from canker and get caught eh!

[Guest]

Now, one moment IB is saying that it can't afect Falcon etc. and can Pigeons, then it can harm dogs etc. All different species having different result.

Now two points are clear... Pour on IS Different from the norm, and Vets would much rather you use their (Pricy) methods etc. and NO Falconer etc. will ever admit that it can affect them. It has to be pour on, simple and straight.Area's are having sucess with it, and never heard yet any detrimental effects on pigeons. Now the main thing is, if it just does the worming etc. etc. and MAY, just may, have a beneficial affect on other species to our liking, then it makes common sence to use it. If hawks love, so beit it, if they don't so what! We will still be getting some worthwhile results.

Every pigeon should have some. And further Falcons don't get over Cankers.... Pity the ferals don't suffer from canker and get caught eh!

 

Yes Roland very important to emphasis must be pour on for cattle or sheep

[Guest Freebird]

Now, one moment IB is saying that it can't afect Falcon etc. and can Pigeons, then it can harm dogs etc. All different species having different result.

Now two points are clear... Pour on IS Different from the norm, and Vets would much rather you use their (Pricy) methods etc. and NO Falconer etc. will ever admit that it can affect them. It has to be pour on, simple and straight.Area's are having sucess with it, and never heard yet any detrimental effects on pigeons. Now the main thing is, if it just does the worming etc. etc. and MAY, just may, have a beneficial affect on other species to our liking, then it makes common sence to use it. If hawks love, so beit it, if they don't so what! We will still be getting some worthwhile results.

Every pigeon should have some. And further Falcons don't get over Cankers.... Pity the ferals don't suffer from canker and get caught eh!

Ferals dont suffer from canker coz the ones that get it die and the ones that don't die become imune to the seviere strains like a lot of pigeon ailments.

 

 

[Larry Lucas]

The only difference between injectable Ivermectin and pour-on Ivermectin is the concentration of the drug: injectable is 1% (stronger) and pour-on is 1/2% (weaker). I continue to find it difficult to believe that the weaker solution is fatal to hawks and the stronger solution is not. For what it is worth.

 

 

[Chairman]

Alternatively there is another product you can use its Evalan Horse Paste, again the active ingrediant is Ivermectin ( the main ingrediant in Ivermectin is derived from a very poisonous wild mushroom, that grows in the Australian outback) it was the late David Palmer that advised me to try it on a team of young birds, you mix with the drinking water and they only need to ingest one drink of the concotion which saves on handling the birds.If any fancier requires the correct doseage rate, please send me a pm and I'll send it onto you.

You can usually purchase from agricultural / horse outlets.

[Guest IB]

Firstly, ivermectin comes from soil bacteria, and is a natural antibiotic.

 

Secondly, it is an avermectin, an antimicrobial group which includes moxidectin

 

Thirdly, there is recorded resistance to ivermectin in worms. If they are resistant to one avermectin, they are resistant to them all. If you continue giving ivermectin to the birds and the worms are resistant, then you are storing up problems for yourself in the future, if you also use moxidectin. The preparation authorised for use in birds is 0.35%. Therefore 1% represents nearly a three-fold overdose.

 

Fourthly, resistance is the result of irresponsible use antibiotics. Some uses suggested on this thread can honestly be termed irresponsible.

 

Fifthly, avermectin-resistance research paper on-line:

 

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/nzva/nzvj/2001/00000049/00000004/art00002