advice on sparrowhawks needed please

[weirbridge lofts]

the cock sparrow hawk will not attempt to take out a pigeon but it will share a feed . why bother with plastic eagle owls when you can pick a real one up just as cheap and they can live side by side if young birds are brought up around them.

[doo]

At the moment the use of "Mylar" tape is being evaluated.

This is a reflective strip of tape which comes in strips about 2 inches wide. It is hung around the gardens.

At the moment there have been no conclusions drawn on whether or not this works.

The alternative is the dummy Eagle Owl.

Both of these remedies should be placed on the normal flight path of the predator to be fully effective.

These are about the only legal measures we can take.

 

Robert my mate in Fife has an Eagle owl on a long pole near his loft .....makes no difference  

[hotrod]

the cock sparrow hawk will not attempt to take out a pigeon but it will share a feed . why bother with plastic eagle owls when you can pick a real one up just as cheap and they can live side by side if young birds are brought up around them.

try telling that to some of my friends round this way the cock sparrow hawk WILL take a bird no probs, in fact ive seen them trying to take down a wood pigeon ,3 or 4 hits at it feathers every ware but the cushy kept going so you wrong to say the cock will not take a pigeon very wrong mate.

 

 

[les]

As the gun thing has been pointed out as illegal, worth pointing out too that any kind of trap is illegal too. If you have a neighbour on your case, best keep squeaky clean, cos even having one of these traps could cost you a few grand fine.

 

Cock sparrowhawk doesn't come into it, too small to take pigeons, it's the hen sparrowhawk thats your main bother, skilled ambush merchant. Need to make sure that there are no hiding places in your garden. I put CDs up last year, and I think they need to be mobile, move with the wind and reflect 'dancing' light to work properly. If you have windows on the loft, make sure they are clean and reflect light too. If your loft is near your house, make sure those windows are always clean enough to reflect light - all mine  were dirty and dull and I think that was why I suffered one attack last year.

 

You also require to vary your routine, no set times for letting them out, when they are out be there, and if you do get an attack, get them in and keep them in the next day. You do not want to set up a feeding pattern.

no offence but things are worse in some areas and in time it will be the same every where no amount of deterents are going to stop attacks so in realaty only one sure way to deal with a growing problem like this and every one should take a chance other wise we can all forget pigeon racing in a few years ,unless you breed big numbers to feed the hawks so a few will survive to race  ,only problem with this is the hawks will increase as well so when do it all stop ,the sooner the better i think .take a chance the law dont give a sh** about us so why should we give a sh** about the law ,after all laws were made by fools for fools to follow .

 

 

[Guest youngzimmy]

GPMG FIRES A THOUSAND ROUNDS A MIN THAT WILL GET RID OF THEM

[Guest IB]

no offence but things are worse in some areas and in time it will be the same every where no amount of deterents are going to stop attacks so in realaty only one sure way to deal with a growing problem like this and every one should take a chance other wise we can all forget pigeon racing in a few years ,unless you breed big numbers to feed the hawks so a few will survive to race  ,only problem with this is the hawks will increase as well so when do it all stop ,the sooner the better i think .take a chance the law dont give a sh** about us so why should we give a sh** about the law ,after all laws were made by fools for fools to follow .

 

On the law: I'm simply pointing out the pitfalls of some of the advice posted. If you have all the information, you can then make up your own mind the way you want to go, as long as there are no crocodile tears and claims of 'I didn't know that' if things go belly-up for you afterwards. Much like the letter from the Scottish fancier published in BHW a year or two ago that got done for £2000 for just having a larsson trap.

 

On predators / prey:  I know that we are talking about sparrowhawks here, but remember the pigeon is descended from the rock dove which lived cheek-by-jowl with peregrines in its narural habitat, cliffs. The dove must have evolved ways of evading it, so there must be genetic coding in the present day pigeon that tells them how to do that. Must be something similar with sparrowhawks too. And I've posted elsewhere that I think we are breeding & training that knowledge out of our pigeons. A big batch of pigeons flying a straight line for home - where do you see that in Nature? Even starlings batch, but not for long, they break into smaller batches and fly an 'up and down' path across the sky, as if they were surfing invisible waves in the sky. Wood pigeons don't fly as a tight batch either, the most I've ever seen crossing the sky together is 3, each bird at a different height in the sky (like planes) and spread a couple of hundred feet apart across the sky. It's just my opinion of course, but basically, we need to be streetwise in what we are doing with our pigeons, as well as the pigeons being streetwise and taking cues from what is going on around them too.

[walterbmasson]

 

 

  IAN ITS NOT OUR BIRDS THAT HAS TO BE STREET WISE ITS US WE SHOULD BE DOING WHAT WE CAN TO DOWN SIZE THESE LARGE AMOUNT OF PREDITORS THAT IS BEING PROTECTED BY THESE RSPB WHO IS MAKING A MOCKERY OF US PUTTING BREEDING PENS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY I CAN TELL YOU IF ANY ONE RELATED TO PROTECTING ANY KIND OF THESE MURDERIOUS BIRDS CAME BEOND MY GATE I WOULD WRING THERE NECKS AND YOU KNOW WHAT ITS THE TAX PAYER THATS PAYS THERE WAGES ALONG WITH ALL THE DONATIONS THEY RECIEVE FROM PEOPLE THAT THINK THEY ARE PROTECTING THE LARKS  AND TITS FINCHES ETC IF THEY ONLY KNEW ALLTHERE DONATIONS ARE FEEDING THESE PREDITORS TO EAT THEM ALIVE THERE HAS BEEN TO MUCH ONE WAY TRAFFIC PROTECTING THESE VICIOUS B------S AND I CAN TELL YOU I FOR ONE WONT STOP GETTING RID OF THEM IF I SEE ONE NEAR MY LOFT ITS GOT TO BE TAKEN CARE OF ONCE I GET IT I TAKE IT 100MILES INTO PASTURES NEW WHERE THERES NO BIRDS I HAVENT SEEN ONE RETURN YET  8) 8) 8) 8)

[Guest]

The most weird deterant and I promise you it did work, (unintentionally). A fancier in Barnsley at Hague whose named I'm ashamed to say I can't remember .  (Ronnie????.....) put a calor gas bottle on top of his loft to stop the felt blowing off. He had forestry commision forest 3 yards behind his loft, had terrible problems with sparrowhawks, he had tried everything to no avail. He'd had it on his loft about 12 months when I spoke to him and it solved his problems, it was an orange coloured one?

I'm not suggesting everyone go out and buy a gas bottle but if you're at your wits end, you could try? :-/

[Guest Davy Fleming]

Anyone want to get rid of the sparrowhawk ? No probs, at least for a while anyway until another comes along just e-mail me a private message and I will help . I will DEFINATELY reply to your  e-mail asap.

[Roland]

 

  IAN ITS NOT OUR BIRDS THAT HAS TO BE STREET WISE ITS US WE SHOULD BE DOING WHAT WE CAN TO DOWN SIZE THESE LARGE AMOUNT OF PREDITORS THAT IS BEING PROTECTED BY THESE RSPB WHO IS MAKING A MOCKERY OF US PUTTING BREEDING PENS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY I CAN TELL YOU IF ANY ONE RELATED TO PROTECTING ANY KIND OF THESE MURDERIOUS BIRDS CAME BEOND MY GATE I WOULD WRING THERE NECKS AND YOU KNOW WHAT ITS THE TAX PAYER THATS PAYS THERE WAGES ALONG WITH ALL THE DONATIONS THEY RECIEVE FROM PEOPLE THAT THINK THEY ARE PROTECTING THE LARKS  AND TITS FINCHES ETC IF THEY ONLY KNEW ALLTHERE DONATIONS ARE FEEDING THESE PREDITORS TO EAT THEM ALIVE THERE HAS BEEN TO MUCH ONE WAY TRAFFIC PROTECTING THESE VICIOUS B------S AND I CAN TELL YOU I FOR ONE WONT STOP GETTING RID OF THEM IF I SEE ONE NEAR MY LOFT ITS GOT TO BE TAKEN CARE OF ONCE I GET IT I TAKE IT 100MILES INTO PASTURES NEW WHERE THERES NO BIRDS I HAVENT SEEN ONE RETURN YET  8) 8) 8) 8)

 

 

Agree 100% and More.... Been spouting on about it for 10 years, never had one, out side a couple of M.P.'s and three E.M.P.'s been interested.... NOT ONE pigeon fancier, or any other body affected by this problem. Bilco use to bang the drum too to no avail.

1955 Ruling of a temporary  'Protection Order'.... about time recinded for starters. M.P.s lobbyed. Marches, Public awareness exactly what the 'Ole dear's' will and other money donated to protect the robinds and finches etc. is really going to and doing! P.R. firm that has built in think tanks, Ears in Coridors of power,  and means to getting our plight over in a realistic and understandable way to Joe Public.... 50P each member... far too dear eh! what about a quiddy!!! RPRA have stated through leaks that they won't go down this route purely because of members' back lash of WASTING their money ... Still waiting for some idle buisnessmen with nothing to do to pay and do it for nother :-/ :o

had a EMO whose father was a renowned fancier, wrote to some offering his service and willing to get, with others aboad... never even got a reply!!!

bleat bleat, spout 'Others should' and 'We shouldn't have too' is all one will get in this regards I'm afraid.

 

[les]

IB reguarding the larson trap ,the man must have had a crap defence lawer ,all he would have to have said if im in posesion of an illegal trap then i want every company in scotland  that  sells or makes them prosecuted as well ,if not then you are being predigest against me and i will take it further .he would have had the case dismised .that is if was a larson trap .

[DJ]

thanks everyone for all your replies  youve all been great and all the info/advice has given me plenty to think on   i wouldnt mind the local police visiting me so much if we were actually trying to shoot the neighbours cat but we really wasnt  the 22 was there purely to protect my birds from the hawks but they saw the chance to stir the sh-t and took it  also the tree that the hawk sometimes appears from is actually in their garden right behind my loft so thats something that ive got to live with as well but thanks for the offer of the netting walterbmasson its much appreciated   it wouldnt be so bad if my neighbours were approachable but it would only end up in another argument with my other half hammering on their door again with the threat of yet another police visit  >  all my other neighbours are great and have even bought missing/injured pigeons back to me but thats life i spose  i expect some of you have had your fair share of neighbour problems havnt you?   im going to give the flashing beacon a try as a hawk deterent so hopefully that may help?  once again thanks everyone   debbie

[Dave barrie]

your damned right walter, we dont entertain rspb up my way and if any hawks are caught, then they are shifted quick.problem is public dont understand, they think rspb protect all birds. we know they dont so us as fanciers must protect our own. its only right.

[Guest IB]

IB reguarding the larson trap ,the man must have had a crap defence lawer ,all he would have to have said if im in posesion of an illegal trap then i want every company in scotland  that  sells or makes them prosecuted as well ,if not then you are being predigest against me and i will take it further .he would have had the case dismised .that is if was a larson trap .

 

I'm sorry but you are way off the mark with that one. It's like saying a car firm shouldn't sell cars, or a TV company shouldn't sell TVs. Because before you can put a car on the road,  or switch on a TV in your own home, you need a licence.

 

No different with a larsson trap, you need a licence for that, and that only allows you to trap corvids, using corvids as bait.

 

[Guest Owen]

I still think that we humans have created a very artificial situation with regard to wildlife. We all know about the clowns in the RSPB who encourage the release of preditory birds. We also know how they hate the idea of European Eagle Owls being loose in the wild. But there are things we can do to help ourselves. How about removing the source of food from the Hawks and Falcons. The Street Pigeons. If they were gone and we kept our birds in during the winter I am sure we would get a result. The Hawks would be attacking birds on every bird table and making their presence obvious to every bird lover. Imagine the uproar that would cause. The Falcons would become a nuisance to game farms and the like. And they would have to move away from the towns and cities if they want to eat. A lot of the Land Owners, who rely on game for a living, have a lot of influence and I am sure they would become active against the RSPB antics.

In addition, I think that we can argue that we are doing the Public a good turn by riding them of those disease ridden flying rats. It seems to me that that is what our Union should be taking a lead on. It would be better to spend our money on that than give it away.

As the Man said," Charity begins at home".

[Guest IB]

 

  IAN ITS NOT OUR BIRDS THAT HAS TO BE STREET WISE ITS US WE SHOULD BE DOING WHAT WE CAN TO DOWN SIZE THESE LARGE AMOUNT OF PREDITORS THAT IS BEING PROTECTED BY THESE RSPB WHO IS MAKING A MOCKERY OF US PUTTING BREEDING PENS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY I CAN TELL YOU IF ANY ONE RELATED TO PROTECTING ANY KIND OF THESE MURDERIOUS BIRDS CAME BEOND MY GATE I WOULD WRING THERE NECKS AND YOU KNOW WHAT ITS THE TAX PAYER THATS PAYS THERE WAGES ALONG WITH ALL THE DONATIONS THEY RECIEVE FROM PEOPLE THAT THINK THEY ARE PROTECTING THE LARKS  AND TITS FINCHES ETC IF THEY ONLY KNEW ALLTHERE DONATIONS ARE FEEDING THESE PREDITORS TO EAT THEM ALIVE THERE HAS BEEN TO MUCH ONE WAY TRAFFIC PROTECTING THESE VICIOUS B------S AND I CAN TELL YOU I FOR ONE WONT STOP GETTING RID OF THEM IF I SEE ONE NEAR MY LOFT ITS GOT TO BE TAKEN CARE OF ONCE I GET IT I TAKE IT 100MILES INTO PASTURES NEW WHERE THERES NO BIRDS I HAVENT SEEN ONE RETURN YET  8) 8) 8) 8)

 

Protection is nothing to do with RSPB they are a charity and the only power they have is the power of persuasion. Its European Law that protects these birds, and it is government departments that apply these laws through the police and courts. With RSPB publicising it in a big way using their many media contacts, like BBC.

 

I agree with you on the 'esteem' with which Joe Public regards the RSPB, it can tell the public anything and they will believe it before us or any other group. I don't agree with your proposal, because it just plays into RSPB hands, and its not 'Joe Bloggs killed birds of prey', its 'pigeon fanciers killed birds of prey' - tar and brush and worst possible publicity for a minority group like us.

 

[les]

 

I'm sorry but you are way off the mark with that one. It's like saying a car firm shouldn't sell cars, or a TV company shouldn't sell TVs. Because before you can put a car on the road,  or switch on a TV in your own home, you need a licence.

 

No different with a larsson trap, you need a licence for that, and that only allows you to trap corvids, using corvids as bait.

you did not say any thing about any licence ,that is what he must have been done for ,not just because he owned it ,all the facts would have saved you and me time ATB les.

 

 

[Guest IB]

Owen, you underestimate the damage birds of prey cause to estates, game management etc., and all of these concerns have reached government ears. SHU have a pilot on just now and I think Gamekeepers Association etc will be keeping a watch on results;

 

And everyone hates street pigeons until authorities try to cull them! The Trafalgar Square pigeons and Ken Livingstone spring to mind, massive opposition with their own website. I agree that their numbers need controlled, and our Council are thinking of prohibiting feeding. My own opinion is that the way to go is with community lofts where people can be employed to look after them, and control breeding by removing their eggs.

[WALLACE]

 

I'm sorry but you are way off the mark with that one. It's like saying a car firm shouldn't sell cars, or a TV company shouldn't sell TVs. Because before you can put a car on the road,  or switch on a TV in your own home, you need a licence.

 

No different with a larsson trap, you need a licence for that, and that only allows you to trap corvids, using corvids as bait.

 

where can you buy a license to use a larsson trap ?

[walterbmasson]

8)

 

 

  THE WORST THING IS THAT PLONKERS IN GOVERMENT THEY ELECT THIS DO GOODERS MAFF AND ALL THERE MP ITSHILARIOUS WHAT THEY COME AWAY WITH FILLING THE COUNTY OF TERRORISTS THEN PUTTING OUR YOUNG SOLDIERS AND WRENS AWAY TO FIGHT THEM AND A LOT HAS LOST THERE LIVES WHAT HAPPENS TONY BLAIR GETS OUT ROLLS IN THE MONEY FOR SENDING THEM TO THERE DEATHS THE BANKERS ARE REWARDED FOR TAKING THE COUNTRY TO ITS KNEES SHERRIE BLAIR IS A MULTI MILLIONAIRE FOR STARTING THE HUMAN RIGHTS INFACT YOU CAN MENTION NEARLY EVERY MP AND THEY HAVE HAD THERE HAND IN THE GRAVY TRAIN GORDON BROWN IS PANNIKING  THERES NO MONEY LEFT WAIT FOR IT HES DECIEDED TO PRINT MORE CASH HES DEFINATELY NOT GOING EMPTY HANDED  HES BEEN LOOKING OUT OF THE WRONG EYE TO LONG HES JUST RELISED THRERES NO COUNTRY LEFT WHERES IT AT GORDON YOUVE GIVEN IT ALL AWAY IAM OFF THE BEATEN TRACK A WE BIT BUT IAN ISN;ITABOUT TIME THIS COUNTRY  STOOD UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT IAM SURE LOOKING AFTER OUR BELOVED BIRDS CAN ONLY BE RIGHT VOTE WALTER FOR GORDON BROWNS JOB THEN WE WILL HAVE A CABINET OF DOO MEN NO MORE HAWKS   8) 8) 8) 8)  

[Guest IB]

you did not say any thing about any licence ,that is what he must have been done for ,not just because he owned it ,all the facts would have saved you and me time ATB les.

 

 

Exactly my point Les, 'all the facts'. Remember I didn't advise the use of traps, others did, but left out the full facts: you're not allowed to trap hawks, or shoot them.

[Guest IB]

 

where can you buy a license to use a larsson trap ?

 

You don't buy a licence, you apply to your government for it. And as I've already said, the licence only allows trapping of corvids, using corvids as bait. I've posted it before, here's the legislation:

 

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-countryside/vertebrates/licences/WLF100089.pdf

 

WLF100089

WILDLIFE AND COUNTRYSIDE ACT 1981

LICENCE TO ALLOW THE KEEPING OF BIRDS IN CERTAIN CAGE-TRAPS FOR PEST CONTROL PURPOSES

 

The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, in exercise of the powers conferred on her by section 16(1)©(d) and (k) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 ("the Act") and after consultation with English Nature and being satisfied that as regards the purpose set out at paragraph 1 that there is no other satisfactory solution, hereby grants the following licence-

 

PURPOSE

1. The purposes of this licence are for conserving wild birds, protecting any collection of wild birds and preventing serious damage to livestock, foodstuffs for livestock, crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber or fisheries.

2. Subject to the terms and conditions below, this licence permits any authorised person to keep or confine any bird listed below in a Larsen cage-trap, the dimensions of which do not satisfy the requirements of section 8 (1) of the Act. The wild birds that are permitted to be used as decoys under the terms and conditions of this licence are;

Crow Corvus corone

Jackdaw Corvus monedula

Jay Garrulus glandarius

Magpie Pica pica

Rook Corvus frugilegus

 

TERMS AND CONDITIONS

3. This licence only applies to the killing, injuring in the course of attempting to kill in accordance with this licence, taking, damaging or destroying (as mentioned in paragraph 1 above) by means which are not prohibited by Section 5 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, or the use of a Larsen cage-trap, with the minimum of distress to the birds.

4. Every Larsen cage trap, used under the authority of this licence, shall be inspected by an authorized person on a daily basis when the cage trap is in use except where this is not possible because of severe weather conditions e.g. as a result of heavy snowfall. In such cases, every effort must be made to inspect the cage trap as soon as possible. At each inspection any birds caught in the trap shall be removed from it.

5. Where Larsen cage-traps are left in the open but not in use, they must be rendered incapable of holding or catching birds.

6. The decoy bird must be provided with adequate food, water, shelter and a perch for the entire period during which it is used. The decoy bird must be removed when the trap is not in use.

7. No bird other than a species included in the list at paragraph 2 may be kept or confined in a Larsen cage-trap as a decoy.

8. Any bird not listed above which may become confined in the cage-trap must be released immediately on being found.

9. This licence applies to England and is valid, unless previously revoked, for the period from 1 January 2004 to 31 December 2004.

 

DEFINITIONS

8. In this licence "authorised person" has the same meaning as in Section 27 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981.

9. "Larsen cage-trap" means a cage-trap which has a closed compartment for confining a live bird as a decoy and a spring activated trap-door which is either top or side mounted.

SARAH JONES Department for Environment

Authorised by the Secretary of State Food and Rural Affairs for the Environment to sign in that European Wildlife Division behalf Wildlife Integration and Conservation Branch

Room 1/10d

Temple Quay House

2 The Square

Temple Way

Bristol BS1 6EB

1 January 2004 Tel: 0117 372 8903

 

NOTES

1. Failure to comply with the terms and conditions of this licence may lead to an offence.

2. The Scottish Executive in respect of Scotland and the National Assembly for Wales in respect of Wales have issued a licence in similar terms.

3. Section 8(1) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 provides that if any person keeps or confines any bird whatever in any cage or receptacle which is not sufficient in height, length or breadth to permit the bird to stretch its wings freely, he shall be guilty of an offence and be liable to a special penalty.

4. Where the action licensed involves the use of firearms, it is the authorised person’s responsibility to ensure that he complies with all relevant legislation.

 

 

[pigeonboyuk]

try an orange hollowed out and one of them small candles lit inside, use a few of them on and around your loft close enough to look like giant owl eyes, supposed to work a treat.  

[Roland]

Owen Wrote Quote'..... The Falcons would become a nuisance to game farms and the like. And they would have to move away from the towns and cities if they want to eat. A lot of the Land Owners, who rely on game for a living, have a lot of influence and I am sure they would become active against the RSPB antics.

True, but!!! they are already a nuisance and pain in the but for Farmers, land owners etc. They won't team up... all moan, nowt constructive will ever be done... That's why we are all sad jokes not to be taken seriously by the RSPB.... Want someone else to walk the walk and tread the boards, even to talk the talk... any one bar us!

[just ask me]

if anyone has a problem pm me 100% way of curing this and its the best way