Setting the reality straight.

[Guest]

Excellent post Paul and it epitomises the reasons behind mine.   As sad as it is the idea just wouldn't work.  

[Guest]

Just one other mention about the bird of prey man at the Devon show, he said at all the shows he gets asked where they can go to see Percy,  he went on to say well in this instance you couldn't be better palced there are more in Devon & Cornwall than anywhere, they are all over!

I think food for thought for organisations that use lib sites down here? Probably helps us fanciers a bit when percy knows that there are large batches being libertated and many strays hanging around.

[Delboy]

I support you one million percent Roland. Only the very niave will not see the importance of this committee

[BLACK W F]

Guys this in house fighting is not solving the problems WE  ALL share  we need to unite and try and solve the problem our selves  not back stabbing  or slagging each other off if your not prepared to be part of the sollution then your part of the problem  good on you Roland  a man of action  and there are many who support you and will be doing there own thing  to help   LETS ALL HELP NOT HINDER

[Guest]

A few facts to show what we are up against and the reason why a total ban on racing pigeons at liberty would help the cause.

Population of United Kingdom as of mid 2007 = 60,975,000 and increase of 7% since 1971

Annual membership of RSPB = 1,000,000

Equals .064% of the total population

 

33,000 members of the RPRA

Equals .00054% of the total population

Therefore proportional ratio of RSPB to RPRA membership = 118:1

 

That is why you cannot confront the RSPB head on, you would be slaughtered.

 

Interfere with nature and you create an imbalance, which is what the RSPB are responsible for. We as pigeon fanciers, remove our birds from the food chain and create our own imbalance. THEN and ONLY THEN will the RSPB members start asking their powers that be why there is an ever increasing number of birds being added to their "Red List"

Then we step in with our campaigns, albiet POB, POBSBS or what ever, and enlighten the British Public as to why there has been such a massive decline in British Birds.

This, in my logical way of thinking, is going to be the only way we are going to gain public support for our hobby and hit the RSPB where it hurts most.

[Guest Owen]

First, I should say that I got involved in an exchange of views on here yesterday. Whereas I do not retract anything I have said, I will not be getting involved like that again.

Having read some of the comments made here there are some opportunities for us. If it is possible to influence door to door collectors working for the RSPB, then we should continue with that approach as often as possible. A drop in the ocean, perhaps, but worth doing.

Regarding the closure of lofts for two years. I think it could work providing there was enough publicity given to it. But I am pretty sure that we could not get the discipline in the sport to make it happen. However, we could find a way to remove many of the ferals from the scene. The City Peregrines would definately be under pressure. Bearing in mind the territorial nature of the bird, they would be forced to invade the territory outside the towns and that would put a heck of a lot of pressure on.

Next, there is the Unions. They are not doing enough. They need to become involved in this fight right now. I need not spell out what is wanted but the time for sitting on hands should be over.

We need a skilled Publicity Agent to bombard the Media with the facts of our case. How else are the Public going to have access to the information that we need them to have so that they can give us suport.

No doubt there are many more positive things that we can be working on, but that is a matter for groups of Fanciers working together.  

[Guest]

Bob accept your view point, perhaps you can start such a campaign. I actually keep my birds in fro 7 months a year, so I understand where you are coming from. But I keep pigeons to race and I'm afraid I would not support a totla banand I'm more likely to be with you than most (considering I impose my own ban for 7 months a year) so I doubt you will get the support. But I wish you well with your campaign and lookforward to seeing you posting a new thread drumming up support for the campaign and expalining how it will work.

[Guest bigda]

and should the media ask why we are doing this  simple just say we are doing this to save the  songbirds and the likes, free  advertisement,  as the  :)rspb are  not responding in helping in the  garden birds survival,

[Merlin]

Lots of logic in what Bob states,the density of the Perigrine,and to a somewhat lesser extent,other Raptors is solely down to its artifical food chain,our pigeons,available as protein packets.on a yearly basis,but especially available in greater numbers,when needed most,their breeding season,resulting in most pairs producing full nests,and reared to maturity,with very little effort on the parents behalf,now each fancier,at this stage,take a bow,because its down to your generosity in providing these raptors with food thats resulted in their population even by the doctored figures of the R.S.P.B to be now at an all time high and guess what,its gonna be at least 50% worse next season,under no circumstances can R S P B or any of the other bodies take credit,for this,its down to us fanciers,and our blindness,that credit should be given,would Bobs policy work ,of couse it would,Nature would decree that,as it always has,will it ever be implemented,of couse not,because the pigeon fancier is the cuurent dinasour.

[Guest bigda]

giving the two campaigns  i think bobs idea would have the most impact, inside the 2 year  period than the other could offer,  and the public then would know and be able to  see, and agree, with us  that  there is no  blackbirds left  

[Guest]

Lads and lasses, I am not out to start a campaign. All I am trying to do is put across a logical viewpoint to get your feedback. I am a realist and fully understand that in all walks of life you are never going to get 100% support or backing, that is the nature of human beings.

Like all problems we face in our every day lives, the only solution is to get to the root cause. For example, taking painkillers for a toothache is not going to make it better, it only masks the pain for a period of time, extracting it, and the problem goes away.

To me the problem is that we as a sport will never voluntarily impose a total shut down for a given period of time, so the only possible way of this happening is if DEFRA or some such power were to impose it...... BUT, and this is what we are up against........ That is never going to happen, because DEFRA are so wrapped up with the RSPB and know, that if they imposed a total ban on the liberty of racing pigeons, THEY WOULD BE SHOOTING THEMSELVES IN THE FOOT.

That is the sad state we are in

[Roland]

Agree with the skilled campaign by professional Owen 100%. Hence why the P.O.B. is determine to get not only the 'Website' up and running ASAP. But as I have posted, a P.R. Firm is a must! A certainty! These concerns have ears to bend, avenues to political corridors etc. Have ways and means to get attention, and further will present a 'Respectable Face' to the media on all our behalves. Whilst of course songbirds will naturally also benefit, we must keep focused on our dilemma foremost. And much more of course some of which I am pleased to say is being quoted, and hence many have now the gist, and taken up a little leeway, slack out of our sails and together, and only banded together can we gain any inroads. As we strive forward we know there will be hopes raised and dashed. Set backs and disappointments will of course happen, but one step back and two forward is a darn site more than we will ever achieve sitting back and arguing amongst our selves. NOW that is a fact.

Stealth is all so importance, because we have to be very careful not to undo all the hard work we have already done, and will continue to do, in this BOP Plight.

I must also emphasise that any over concern, thoughts or action, endeavours roads other wish to go I am more than fine with. Let me assure you I would certainly never ever even think of causing despondency or nit pick. For as I feel personally our concerted efforts in the P.O.B. need to be coordinated and need all the support, both now and in the future, any other happening that helps, no matter how minor, must be of help.

Let no one believe differently, this is a long and arduous fight, one which I, and you all, I hope take to the limit, to get the results needed and warrented in the end.

May I suggest, for those that haven't already, to please look at the P.O.B Mandate, and read the postings put up for you to show the progress and them asking for thoughts ideas etc. etc.

[Guest bigda]

i think in your action rolland, your plight, would have no impact in 10 years,

as it would be swallowed up in  meetings with this pr and that pr, where direct action as of by proxy then enforced, would serve the fancy better in the long run  failure to seize the  initiative will  destroy the racing game with in 10 years from now, so its up to the fancy as to save the day, hard decisions now make it easer for  the future of the sport  in later  years

[Roland]

Great Bigda, so rally your supporters and go ahead. Do something useful and for our cause! Get these thoughts into action. We will stand up and applaud you.

One thing for certain is berating my and the P.O.B's efforts is is no value. Nor is it getting started what you wish to also achieve on all our behalf’s.

Mind at least, and I can honestly state this as a fact 'WE are up and about, are trying and staying sensible with realistic goals to go for and hopefully achieve some.

Over the past 40 years I have heard, like everyone else over some period of time, heard exactly same as you, bleating. No program or goals. No way forward, but believe endless chirping here and there will cause others to get up of their armchairs and rally to your CAUSE. Whatever they may be. But you know, the simple truth is that they don't, you won't! But believe me, instead of useless banter and being high and mighty in a derogative way, if and when you EVER get of your butt, I WILL rally and carry a flag for you. In the mean time while waiting I'll idling sit here, twiddle my thumbs and see how many put downs and posts I can disrupt before I die waiting

[BLACK W F]

WELL SAID ROLAND THE TRUTH HURTS

[Guest strapper]

theres one person i know thats got the right idea...maybe a bit ott to some but he,s getting results and going quietly about his business...wont mention his name but he isnt on either site now...good luck to him i say.

i know there are loads backing his way ,simply because there is no sufficent other way at the moment.

........................when plea,s fall on deaf ears only actions can be heard..............................

[Roland]

From a P.O.B member.... Must say I've never seen them reply on open forum their views, but of course they must do. .................

 

Anyway I noticed bigda ask for the BOP website address - It is below with a holding page on it -

http://www.protectourbirds.co.uk/ - Its live and submitted to Google, Yahoo etc so will generate hits.

 

Please, everyone, anything you consider worthwhile, thoughts constructive, photo's, video's etc. etc. Articles please email them to Persuas on the P.O.B. or Peditors. I am assured he will forwward to every member of the P.O.B and where feasible, or enlightening,  - subject some times obtaining permission, they wil be used, or held until appropiate.

Stealth is still the key word of course and oppertunity.

[Guest bigda]

WELL SAID ROLAND THE TRUTH HURTS

 

what you on about mate truth  hurts   you give rolland £200 just now to get his ball rolling,  we sing from the same hymn sheet,  but me being here now, and you also, is a far better option now than being 10 years down the road and only decided then  we need £30,00 to get some one in the pr  business   to fleck   his thrapple,  and  by that time the horse  has bolted   

[Guest]

i think in your action rolland, your plight, would have no impact in 10 years,

as it would be swallowed up in  meetings with this pr and that pr, where direct action as of by proxy then enforced, would serve the fancy better in the long run  failure to seize the  initiative will  destroy the racing game with in 10 years from now, so its up to the fancy as to save the day, hard decisions now make it easer for  the future of the sport  in later  years

 

Bigda you are entitled to your opinion. I would say you're on to a good bet the way things are going, cause we won't have a sport in 10 years. So why be so negative about someone trying to do something. If you have a better idea by all means go and do it. Those supporting Roland think that all that has been tried to date has not worked. They are however not trying to persuade anyone to abandon their ways, I know you are a supporter of the cuckoo theory and if that's what makes you comfortable and is the way forward I wish you the very best of luck. Use your energies to suport what you believe in instead of using them to stop other people following the way they wish, many roads lead to Rome, unfortunately no one to date has even got across the channel!

This thread has been so negative when it should be full of positive ideas about moving forward. If anyone wants to talk about different ways then open a thread about the way they want. This keeps getting hijacked by people with completley different ideas on the way forward. If they want to drum up support for banning pigeons from the sky for 2 years or support the Cuckoo theory, then start a new thread.

[Guest]

 

Bigda you are entitled to your opinion. I would say you're on to a good bet the way things are going, cause we won't have a sport in 10 years. So why be so negative about someone trying to do something. If you have a better idea by all means go and do it. Those supporting Roland think that all that has been tried to date has not worked. They are however not trying to persuade anyone to abandon their ways, I know you are a supporter of the cuckoo theory and if that's what makes you comfortable and is the way forward I wish you the very best of luck. Use your energies to suport what you believe in instead of using them to stop other people following the way they wish, many roads lead to Rome, unfortunately no one to date has even got across the channel!

This thread has been so negative when it should be full of positive ideas about moving forward. If anyone wants to talk about different ways then open a thread about the way they want. This keeps getting hijacked by people with completley different ideas on the way forward. If they want to drum up support for banning pigeons from the sky for 2 years or support the Cuckoo theory, then start a new thread.

 

I do believe Roland has asked on numerous occasions for people to post their ideas. As I have already stated, mine is an idea, NOT a campaign, which you yourself just said "this post could be full of positive ideas". Where have I ever knocked Rolands campaign?? and when does an idea cease to be positive? ..... Oh yes I just remembered, when it is not to your liking  ;D ;D ;D.........and who are you to be telling people where and when they can post. I don't see your name on the list of Moderators or Admin. ............... And for the record I have had a number of good pm's to and from Roland in the past on this issue and we have always got on amicably (Check it out with him ).

[Roland]

To put in bluntly and in a proper perspective, I started this thread simply to put straight the negative, and stupid codswallop some spouted trying to promote own ego's and to flay the efforts of the P.O.B.

Which I did. If those whom it was intended for, still can't see, or reason just how stupid and silly they made themselve, the I feel sad for them. Not going over what I have already posted, but feel that some, when reaching for that hat to glance in the mirror before going out in it.

Yes Bob, I'm happy to confirm we have exchanges some useful Emails.

Further I will like to add, I advocate us ALL to stop flying for two season, - on other site 10 years ago and regularly since as even posts on here will confirm.

Could even get Clubs, let alone Feds, or even members to discuss it. Hence that is why I gave up on that Idea. Just before this P.O.B got momentum I posted as such.

Nary found above a dozen tops willing to take it on board. 5 of us willing only. So yes I do believe it would have good effects. No, unfortunately I fear it would be an fruitless and a endless walk to take. Even if many did, some would sti;ll say 'ah I risk a little chuck, or let the birds out for a quick fly'. Then it would soon be another, and another day till in no time at all back to where we are now. Shame really, because it would allow persons to gather stock - still buy or sale - and safe a lot of money that could well be put to other good uses.

So collectively to all embrace I fear will never happen ... but may indivduals are already doing as such for 7 months or so a year or more.

[Guest]

 

I do believe Roland has asked on numerous occasions for people to post their ideas. As I have already stated, mine is an idea, NOT a campaign, which you yourself just said "this post could be full of positive ideas". Where have I ever knocked Rolands campaign?? and when does an idea cease to be positive? ..... Oh yes I just remembered, when it is not to your liking  ;D ;D ;D.........and who are you to be telling people where and when they can post. I don't see your name on the list of Moderators or Admin. ............... And for the record I have had a number of good pm's to and from Roland in the past on this issue and we have always got on amicably (Check it out with him ).

 

Ouch Bob, bit ocf malice there me thinks. Strange to attack me when I actually am one of the few people who actually get near to carrying out what you are asking. I'll leave it at that don't want to get into your negative vibe

[Guest]

 

Ouch Bob, bit ocf malice there me thinks. Strange to attack me when I actually am one of the few people who actually get near to carrying out what you are asking. I'll leave it at that don't want to get into your negative vibe

 

Albear, my sincere apologies, no malice or negative vibes intended. Sent you a pm.

[greenlands]

I 've read through these posts every day since the thread began,tried to keep my nose out of it but finally had to give in.What Rolands doing bound to do some good,even if it only converts one persons thoughts.I and a couple more lads who live local to me and are on this site get hammered with both Peregrines and Sparrow Hawks to the extent that it's nearly time to call it a day and i've been among pigeons for over sixty years,so that's not said lightly.This season alone with not counting I must have had eight to ten times if not more strikes with Peregrines over the loft and again while training.If you don't like the idea of what these people are doing,just ignore it and enjoy your pigeons,In this area you can't.

Lindsay C

[Guest IB]

I really think some people were born with their anatomy A about B.......... How many of you have got the hobby at heart????? very few, from what I can see. The outspoken amongst you are interested in only one thing........... self satisfaction AND PIGEONS COME A LONG WAY DOWN THE QUEUE. Sad people that you are.  A bit of surgery would soon put you right...... What you sit on, you class as a BRAIN and what you have between your ears most sensible people call your Gonads.

I will say it again, KEEP YOUR BIRDS LOCKED UP FOR 2 YEARS so the BOP have to feed on the native wild birds of the UK, and then, and only then, will the people who donate to the RSPB will start asking them the questions, INSTEAD OF US. The sh!te will really hit the fan then. At the moment, the RSPB and DEFRA are laughing at us pigeon fanciers for supplying their beloved BOP. TAKE THE PIGEONS OUT OF THE FOOD CHAIN AND THE PRO BOP ACTIVISTS HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM.

Stand back and smell the coffee. The basic things in life are the most effective.

Two years of inactivity by ALL pigeon keepers, spells disaster for the RSPB and DEFRA and secures a future for our hobby. Anything else and we are doomed to a future without our birds

 

I agree with you, but I doubt that it would be enough. There was advice published in the BHW letter's page this year, well buried amongst dubious statistics, that we should (also?) change our breeding & racing seasons to fall outside the bop breeding seasons. I think it the height of stupidity to have 100 youngsters, and flying about in dead of winter when meat is scarce for everything, including sparrowhawk. We also start racing in April when the weather is unsuitable, never mind the peregrines. The writers said this alone would reduce the numbers. So either, or, or both will have an impact.