eyesign real or fake

[Guest]

Craig yes thats ok but you wont learn anything from a photo.

 

Tommy, what about books?

[Sylvan]

It is always interesting to delve into the background on the 'eye sign experts' and to see how well they were able to capitalize on their skills. Growing up in the 50's we read and re-read Bishop's book a hundred times and studied the eyes and numbers until we knew them well. I started my library in the 60's and lo and behold I purchased a book written by a Belgian who ruthlessly attacked Bishop for being a liar and more. In this book were actually photocopies of letters by Bishop basically asking the Belgium to send over some birds and he would whip some eye sign on them and sell them. I have Flemming's book and the only mistake he made was trying to race in California. Like feather merchants they should leave the racing to people who know how to. Most recently I was visiting in the hot bed of racing in the States,Spring Hill and checked out Pete Pobor's results.(he also wrote a book on eye sign). In a word they were poor. If it works for you great..but I'm skeptical after 50 yrs.

[Guest shadow]

If eyesign is so good why dont the people that believe and practice it top their clubs and feds every week, as I personally have not seen much evidencne in our area

 

quality not quantity

[jimmy white]

PERSONALLY, I HAVE NEVER BEEN INTO" EYSIGN"..  IN MY OWN EXPERIENCE, IN A SUPER FIT PIGEON, I SEE A DIFFERANCE IN THEIR EYE, A DIFFERANCE IN THEIR COLOUR, A DIFFERANT FEEL TO THEIR BODY,A DIFFERANT WAY THEY ACT, I FIND THEY ARE ACTUALY A DIFFERANT TEMPERATURE, THESE ARE THE PIGEONS THAT WIN. ALBEIT A VERY INTERESTING SUBJECT, I HAVE FOUND MANY SO CALLED EYESIGN EXPERTS, COULD NOT FLY A PIGEON. I SAY THIS BECAUSE I RACED AGAINST THEM , AND THRASHED THEM ON A REGULAR BASIS.MAYBE PRETTY HARSH WORDS,BUT NEVER THE LESS TRUE,.

ONE OF THESE FANCIERS HAD A PIGEON THAT HAD WON MANY,MANY BEST IN SHOWS FOR EYSIGN,IT NEVER WON AT ALL IN RACING, AND NEVER BRED ANY WINNERS.    ONLY MY FINDINGS AND MY OPINION

[jimmy white]

    p.s. i would say, the best eyes in your loft, ARE YOUR EYES.   :)

[Guest slugmonkey]

I have heard eye guys say many things but I think my favorite is " a bird with a good eye might not be a good bird, but a good bird will always have a good eye "I once had a guy who was a show judge look at the wing of one of my birds and tell me it was bad unfortunatly it was the wing of a National Ace bird of Holland so my point is this if you show eyes worry about eyes if wings then worry about wings but if you race worry about the basket!!!

[andy]

EYESIGN, WING, TAILS ALL THEORIES, I PREFER TO LOOK AT HARD FACTS WHICH ARE GOOD LOFT, GOOD BIRDS, GOOD MANAGEMENT, RACE PANNIER & RESULTS ALL IN THIS ORDER..............FACT NOT FICTION..

[ribble]

fake

[Guest]

Ribble - Very True !

[Mike Lycett]

Plenty of our best pigeons have very ordinary eyes.

 

Two things determine a good pigeon and two things only

 

What's in the HEART and what's between the EARS.    You can tell neither with an eye-glass

 

Mike

[THE FIFER]

Eyesign!!!   OK for shows,

[PIGEON_MAN]

AS A BELEIVER IN EYESIGN ESPECIALLY FOR BREEDING I WOULD LIKE THE PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT IS IS A LOAD OF RUBBISH TO HAVE A LOOK AT THE POSTING I  PUT ON THE FIRST PAGE OF THIS TOPIC.WAS I JUST LUCKY OR IS THERE SOMETHING REALLY IN IT,

I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN YOUR COMMENTS,NOT OFFENDED.

[T_T]

Hi Carter,

               All pigeon people when handling a pigeon, pick it up feel it's body and check it's eye.  Now what they are looking for with the eye, I don't know but a very quick story.

Busschaet enthusiasts would remember this pigeon.  Some many years ago I had the delight of handling the very famous Coppi hen who was the best breeding hen in the country at that time.  The thing that stuck out vividly in my mind was her eye.  The eye colour was a Khaki colour and surrounding the pupil was a very heavy mountainous serration of black shading.  I have forever since been searching for an eye of the same quality.  Guess what ?  Saturday 7th Jan a friend gave me a 9yr old Dark Cock through the lines of Coppi.  Eureka !!!  Miracles do happen.

[Mike Lycett]

Pigeon_Man

I agree with you when you say that many people are trying to get pedigrees to fly. Pedigrees don't. The more you can breed off genuine performance pigeons then the stronger your chances are of hitting the bullseye.

As for eyesign, we've paired our No.1 Stock Hen with cocks that in total have 8 different eyes between them. Sh'es not bothered, she breeds the goods with 'em all.  We've paired 2 x pearls together and got belters.  Eyesign is NEVER a consideration when pairing at our lofts. We stick to pairing best to best & take physical charachteristics & personalities into account too.

Adopting this system has won us 4 WEst Midlands Awards in 3 seasons against 5,200 members, so I guess something can't be too far adrift?

 

Regards

Mike

[T_T]

Hi Mike,

             How then do we put in prospective a hen such as the Coppi hen that never raced and yet turned out winner after winner.?  Has your No 1 stock hen raced. ? if not, surely that poo poos the idea of best to best.  I am certainly on a learning curve here and any advice will be taken on board.

 

Before I finish, I will tell you of a story that happened some years ago.  

We had a top eyesign man visit us and on passing the basket in which the pigeons were waiting to be seen and without touching any pigeon, he clearly stated that a particular cock would breed a Combine winner and another one would win the Combine.  Little did he know, they already had.  father and son. Incidents like that never fail to amaze and astound me.

 

regards,

TT

[Guest Silverwings]

a few words here for the people who knock eye sign and those that dont ,first and foremost pigeon racing is sport for us to enjoy, and if eye sign gives pleasure to fanciers  who study it , then its not a bad thing  ,any area that creates an interest between fanciers who strive to improve their birds should be what this sport is all about ,    people that shout results and rubish peoples interests are NOT what this sport is about

[T_T]

Hi Silverwings,

                      A very amusing subject, providing one dosn't get too uptight about it.  After all we are here for the same purpose to learn and enjoy.

 

regards,

TT

[Guest]

In my humble opinion eyesign is just another tool, to be employed in selection .  I was a none believer in eyesign until I had the honour to host Jack Barkel and his wife Margaret when they first visited the USA.

 

The last day of his 2nd visit, Jack sat at our dining room table and graded somewhere in the region of 550 birds during the day. I sat through all the gradings and I was totally transfixed., by the accurate data he was able to deduce about the birds by just looking at the eyes, such as how many races the bird had won or how many winners the bird had bred.

 

Just as an aside comment, the first time Jack visited he knew we had a bird who had just taken Concourse champion young bird and was recently awarded Washington State Hall of Fame young bird.  He only knew the sex of the bird, no other details   The first time he walked in the loft, he was looking at the birds in all the sections and he said to us, "that pencil cock there, is your Hall of Fame bird" and he was right, picked him out of about 200.  I then sat down and listened to what Jack had to say.

 

The bird Motown Missile, a Janssen cock is my avatar bird.

[Guest]

first and foremost pigeon racing is sport for us to enjoy, people that shout results and rubish peoples interests are NOT what this sport is about

 

Can't agree more. The question is 'eyesign real or fake'. Have posted on its origins on Backs who translated his own pigeons performances and what he read in their eyes into something that he theorised applied to all pigeons; on the physical structure of the eye; and what the Hungarian Professor Alphons Anker had to say about pigeon's eyes - he read intelligence there.

 

Simply put up ALL the available information to help people decide if it would be useful for them or not. No need to rubbish or insult anyone.

[snowy]

maybe you get good pigeons with a certain(good eye) and you get good pigeons without that certain good eye, & i suppose you get rubbish pigeons with that same certain eye?  i think its just the breeding.

ie:

get a good human athlete with blue eyes, & a rubbish athlete with the same blue eyes?

just my opinion

[maverick]

I HAVE PAIRED UP BIRDS BY EYE SIGN BRED REALY NICE LOOKING YOUNG BIRDS SOME WITH GOOD EYES BUT WHEN IT CAME TO RACING THEY COULD NOT FLY THE LENGHTH OF THE STREET NEVER MIND A RACE OTHER YOUNG BIRDS TREATED THE SAME WERE FLYING REALY WELL  NOW IT IS BEST TO BEST AS THE APPLE NEVER FALLS FAR FROM THE TREE .GOOD RACERS WILL BREED THE LIKE SOME WERE ALONG THE LINE

[Guest Hjaltland]

My owld racing pigeon mentor Davy White (now racing his doos in Edinburgh, Arniston club) went by the 'Feet theory'  .... two feet on the landing board first on race day, never fails!

 

I still like to look at the eyes though, and its good to see a good bit of colour there.

[Guest]

Maverick

 

Maybe the young birds who didn't fly well were born to be breeders and not flyers.

[schouwman71]

I have studied my janssens eyes for many years now and after seeing family traits it is within the family of the breed,but saying that i pick all my pigeons for stock on 1st body and wing ,single tail flight covering the rest,and then eye sign.I have picked all my top breeders this way some were youngsters when i bought them,one cock being responsible for 23 1st prize winners.plus he won many eye sign shows.If you want a good winning family breed around strong eyed pigeons.

[maverick]

HELLO HYACINTH .  I DO NOT THINK THAT ALL OF THEM WOULD BE BREEDERS AS THEY ARE VERY HARD TO COME BY . AS ISAID THESE BIRDS WERE GOOD LOOKERS  I THINK IF YOU WANT YOU CAN BREED BIRDS TO HAVE EYESIGN DONT MEAN THEY ARE ANY GOOD