eyesign real or fake

[Silverdale Lofts]

HI PIGEONMAN IVE STUDIED EYESIGN FOR 35 YEARS HAVING BEEN TAUGHT BY MY 2 UNCLES THE EYE I GOT OFF A WEB SITE THE ONLY ONE I COULD FIND WHAT I COULD DESCRIBE WHAT TO LOOK FOR IN THE EYE ITS A TOP PRODUCER.

[snowy]

there is a great article on eye sign & photos on this link

http://www.silvio-co.com/pigeons/eyesign.htm

 

[Silverdale Lofts]

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[Silverdale Lofts]

Pigeonman what do think about this eye?

[PIGEON_MAN]

ALLTHOUGH ITS NOT A VERY GOOD PICTURE I WOULD SAY THAT THIS IS ALSO THE EYE OF A VERY GOOD BREEDER.NICE TO KNOW THERE IS SOMEONE ELSE ON HERE THAT APPRECIATES THE EYES.I ONLY EVER GO BY THE EYE WHEN I AM CHOOSING A BIRD FOR BREEDING OFF.I,VE NEVER REALLY BOTHERED TO MUCH ABOUT THE EYES FOR RACING AS IT SEEMS THAT THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT ONES THAT WIN RACES.WHAT DID YOU THINK OF MY POSTING EARLIER ABOUT CHOOSING THAT COCK BIRD OUT OF ALL THOSE THAT WERE FOR SALE,THE EYE ON HIM IS FANTASTIC.

[Silverdale Lofts]

yes i agree i always look at eye the last eye on here never been beaten in a eye sign show in oz

[PIGEON_MAN]

SORRY I DIDN,T WRITE ANYTHING IN THE CHAT ROOM KEYBOARD DIDN,T SEEM TO WANT TO WORK IN THERE.SORRY TO YOU ALSO ROSE AND ANYONE ELSE BUT MY KEYBOARD JUST WONT WORK WHEN I GO INTO THE CHAT ROOM ALLTHOUGH IT WAS O.K.EARLIER ON TODAY AND THERES NO PROBLEM ON HERE.

[Guest slugmonkey]

I have had several eye guys at my lofts over the years and I am no beliver one bird they all seem to like is a sister to a Verca Laga winner she came by way of Jose Tone I payed quite a bit of money for her and have not bred anything that I could do worth a damm with well one of these guys just had to have her so I sold her I am friends with this guy and told him what I thought before I sold her to him well to make a long story short he isn't breeding any decent birds from her either I just fly them if they race good they move to the breeding loft if they produce they stay if they dont I race them more I am a lot more interested in performance than eyes or pedigrees  

[Guest Silverwings]

having studied eyes for many years and judged eye sign classes ,i  found something constant in all birds cosidered super pigeons both bteeders and racers,the circle imeadiatly surrounding the pupil ( the eye sign ) is a muscle atatched to the ciliary body ,this muscle is an involutary muscle ,and acts on impulse constantly dilating the pupil to diferent extremes of light ,and manipulating the birds focus on the slightest of movements or distant object , in short the more active the muscle the more inteligent the pigeon , considering the ciliary body is atatched to its brain ? take a look at your best and post the findings

[stucky 1]

That be the circle of adaptation silv you talking about, the black or grey circle.

[Guest]

With due respect Silv., way adrift on your reasoning.  

 

An 'involuntary' response is one that the animal has absolutely no conscious control over - muscle or otherwise. Its on 'automatic pilot' like your heart and lungs.  If the bird has absolutely no conscious control over it, how can you measure its intelligence by the number of times 'the muscle responds automatically'?

 

And everything in the bird's body is connected to the brain - either electrically or chemically - that's the way every living animal works.

[Guest Silverwings]

 am new to this site bruno , thanks for the interest  if you get chance take a look at a site called st lukes eye.com (eye anatomy) see ciliary body, my interest is more into the mechanics of the eye  ,the key word  is impulse , shine,  a light into the eye of any pigeon and the pupil will dilate ,the bird has no control over this process in my book this makes it an involuntary impulse , are some birds not more impulsive than others ?  i hope some of mine are  ! they just might have the impulse to break out on their own and get in front of the rest , the eyes of our birds all have lots of activity in this area ,sometimes they seem a  bit too inquisitive but its the way i want them ,i dont like faceless pigeons , ours  are  taught to fly on their own and have regular single ups at 60 miles with very few losses , i beleive some of the old belgian masters had a terminology for this so called activity  , searching pupil ? anyone else heard of this ?

[Guest]

Hi, Silverwings. Quick look at your site, the human eye (there's nearly a bad pun in there   ;D )

 

Cut this avian eye article down to 2 pages, plus a diagram. Hope you find it interesting.

 

THE MARVELOUS AVIAN EYE

by Linda Pesek DVM

 

One of nature's true marvels is the design of the avian eye. In general, birds possess some of the best vision capabilities in the animal kingdom. Birds see in colour, with enormous accuracy and at long distances. Some have very advanced depth perception and motion detection capabilities, while others see well at night. A bird's eyes are quite large in comparison to the size of its body and are extremely important to its survival.

 

Nocturnal birds such as owls make very efficient use of light. Other birds have finely tuned focusing ability, enabling them to see accurately at long distances. In fact some birds of prey (such as raptors) have developed enhancements to the eye which enable them to focus at both far and near distances and to accurately judge the speed of moving objects.

 

The position of a bird's eyes on its head varies by type of bird. Birds of prey have wider heads with the eyes set apart and facing forward, similar to humans. This gives them binocular vision or depth perception and enables them to judge the speed and distances of prey and other objects.

 

Birds such as parrots, which are prey for other animals, usually have eyes set on the side of the head. This gives the bird better peripheral vision and enables it to detect danger from a wider field of vision. Birds can move their eyes a bit, to extend their range of vision.

 

Although the anatomy of the avian eye is similar to that of mammals, a few reptilian characteristics still remain within the avian eye. Birds have enormous eyes relative to their body size and the keenest vision of all vertebrates.

 

The shape of avian eyes may be flat, globose or tubular. "Flat" eyes are found in diurnal birds with narrow heads such as doves, pigeons and parrots. They have a short front to back axis  so that the image that falls on the retina is small, resulting in lower visual acuity. Pigeons, have narrow skulls and laterally placed eyes which provide a large field of vision but a small binocular vision. Binocular visions means that both eyes are focused on the same object and move in a co-ordinated fashion.

 

The eye is composed of three layers. The outer one, the sclera is strong and fibrous and maintains the eye’s shape, protects its internal structure, and is the attachment point for the eye muscles. Its clear front portion is the cornea, which allows light to pass through and into the pupil behind it. Small overlapping bones encircle the cornea, strengthen the eyeball and provide attachment for the ciliary muscles.

The middle layer of the eye is composed of the iris, the ciliary body and the choroid. The iris is a thin sheet of muscle fibres and connective tissue that forms a diaphragm in front of the lens, controlling the amount of light entering the eye. The pupil is the circular open space at the centre of the iris. The iris contains pigment that gives the eye its colour. In some species of birds, the iris coloration changes with age.

The ciliary body is located at the base of the iris, suspends the lens by zonular fibres and alters the shape of the lens, changing the focal point of the eye. The ciliary body also produces a thin fluid which maintains the internal pressure and shape of the eye. The ciliary muscles are very important for visual accomodation. The choroid is a thick, vascular, darkly pigmented layer that coats the retina and helps nourish both the sclera and retina.

The third and innermost layer of the eye is the retina. It is very sensitive to light. The retina of birds is different from mammals in that it is thick and has no blood vessels. The pecten is a vascular, folded structure projecting from the avian retina. It is thought to aid the choroid layer in supplying the retina with nutrients and in transporting oxygen and carbon dioxide. The optic nerve centres the retina in the lower quadrant of the back of the eye.

The avian lens is softer than that of mammals - a very important feature in rapid visual accommodation. Ciliary muscles change the shape of the lens to focus on near or far objects, a process known as accommodation.

 

A small moveable membrane, the nictitating membrane (or third eyelid) is located in the corner of the eye. This membrane moves across the eye, spreading tear secretion produced by the gland of the nictitating membrane and a lacrinal gland. This tear secretion moistens the cornea and protects against micro-organisms.

 

 

Anatomy of the Eye.

 

 

Can't post the diagram (won't allow me to add here or to post seperately. Its a  .bmp file, what's the problem???)

 

 

 

[Webmaster]

The picture may be too big (filesize). If you know how to shrink the file size, shrink to under 100kb and then you will be able to post it. On the other hand, email the pic to me and I'll pop it on for you

[Guest]

AVIAN EYE

 

 

[Guest Silverwings]

class information bruno , have not seen a breakdown of the  avian eye ? find all this  fascinatng stuff , will cool on this subject having seen this info , need a few days to evaluate this a bit deeper !  would be interested to see your thourghts on the last post by rose regarding ( bull eyes) ? both of the famillys we house  the maurice voets ,and the old putman often produce pigeons with one or more white feathers in one wing , almost evry one displays the bull or pied pigment within the eye the same side as the white wing feathers ? never in the opposite eye , read something once about right sided and left sided pigeons , this being determined by the central tail feather , being slightly offset either way ? a lot of pigeons ive handled also display the the eye sign slightly stronger in one or the other eye ? usually in the same side as the offset tail feather , anyone else noticed this ?      in most of the pairings i do i now tend to pair the left siders to the rights , the past few years have seen the tail feathers become more central and the signs within the eyes of equal strength . the pigeons definatley seem stronger for this , any thourghts on this ?      

[stucky 1]

I take it is the circle of adaptation we are talking about then is that right rose.

[Guest]

Well I prefer to remain open minded 'but neutral' on eye sign.   When I discovered that there was bone (I would think it more likely to be cartilage) in there too, I actually wondered if the first circle beyond the pupil was actually bone 'you' were looking at. I know the iris to be trillions of tiny blood vessels on a carpet of muscles, so when I hear about mountains and valleys I suspect I know exactly what you are seeing. I'll start worrying though when I hear about rivers!  

 

As regards bull eyes, Rose. No expert, but I've a loft full of black and brown bulls in which the only thing I can see is a reflection of my face on their eyeballs!  

 

But one of me first 'gift youngsters' is an absolute cracker - he's a Jim Cameron / Albert Oribine cross: a black bull eye on one side, and a pearl eye on the other. How would you go about marking him?   ;D

 

And the bit of the eye that I'm really interested in is the pectin. There's very little known about that - some writers talk of 'up to 30 different functions'. Wonder if has an  involvement in homing?

[Guest]

Silverwings, from my elementary genetics, your breeding experiments match exactly what you would expect to find when you pair up different characteristics.  

 

Take any letter to represent your 'visible' characteristics. If you pair up an Ab with a Ba, the birds you'll produce are AB, Aa, BA and ab; ie on average the pair will produce 2 x AB, 1 x Aa and 1 x ab.

 

Wee bit more to breeding than the eye, I'm afraid.  

[PIGEON_MAN]

ANOTHER CRACKING PAIR OF EYES ROSE I WOULD THINK THAT THEY ARE VERY GOOD RACERS WITH THE SECOND ONE THE BETTER OF THE TWO AT BREEDING ALSO.

[Guest WINGS 04]

i think the first one is the breed and i like to see the pencil  stroke in the bottom right corner of the eye and i allso see that the first one has more of the racing sign in it just my opinion

[Guest WINGS 04]

I GOT IT WRONG THANKS FOR TELLING ME ABOUT THE EYES ROSE

[Guest]

;D ;D ;DI don't believe anything in eyesign, as long as they got two eyes,

 

Funny thing when i looked at my pigeon's eyes and i was telling myself what the heck im looking for.                     ;D ;D

[Guest]

Tommy or someone experience in eye signs.

 

Is this correct or wrong names on the eyesign picture, and what do you look in the eyes first ?

[Silverdale Lofts]

Craig yes thats ok but you wont learn anything from a photo.