dwh Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 how do you know if abird is genetically capable of flying 500 cos it comes off champion distance birds does'nt guarentee you they'll come so what exactly do we look for.A really good pigeon man told me watch your when they come back from 350 -400 fresh, not having lost to much weight the you have a good idea it'll PROBABLY fly a good 500+ as long as you feed it right and this ia man that topped the 4 times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stb- Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Been reading this thread with interest and I believe you all have missed a very important point. LOCATION can determine the percentage of pigeons capable of flying 500 mls. Here in Britain, if you lie on the east side of the country then I feel getting pigeons from the distance races is slightly easier. Exactly that is why a lot of birds dont make it to the races, a lot get wiped out on the way home from the shorter ones. PS why have you got a 30 year old picture on your avatar :P ;D ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Exactly that is why a lot of birds dont make it to the races, a lot get wiped out on the way home from the shorter ones. PS why have you got a 30 year old picture on your avatar :P ;D ;D ;D Photo taken yesterday ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albear Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Exactly that is why a lot of birds dont make it to the races, a lot get wiped out on the way home from the shorter ones. PS why have you got a 30 year old picture on your avatar :P ;D ;D ;D Gosh is he only 30 in that pic I would never have believed it :-/?? That's the point I was making to slugmonkey about the different environment to race to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 work this one out a partnership had a ch.hen never missed a channel race for 2 years won 8 topped the amal twice previous to this,this hen was cut down and used as a trapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stb- Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Photo taken yesterday ;D ;D ok rip van winkel :P ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry mccarthy Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 if i send lets say 20 to thurso and its a decent race i will expect and have got 18 it does depend a lot on the race 2 years ago there was no birds home in race time in essex combine i never sent to that one i sent to lnrc untill this year every bird i had went to thurso including yearlings and to be honest i wouldnt hesitate to send a youngster there either if it was allowered i sent 6 youngsters 340 miles and done it with ease all home at the right time most races ifind is down to feed and preperation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 agree totally the problem with channel is that little piece of H2O i'm not decrying the abilities of the long distance inland birds but we must all agree the channel poses another type of problem for our brave flyers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demolition man Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 That must have been a great job, Frank Hall I understand was a top guy. I know what you're saying, I would like to just change the wording and say at the end of the day you'll like what comes, whereas you may not have before you sent it!? I was only a young lad at the time a yes it was a dream job , I can remember handling the Bushaert Champion little black i believe Ken Aldred was the owner at the time. Only the stewards were allowed to handle him what a pigeon that was. Jim biss had several sales there, Alf Baker, Reg Barker all great distance flyer, i worked along side great distance Flyer like Chalie Saunders and Gordon Thorpe i learnt a lot at these sale by handling so many champions, They all had one thing in common great hearts, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Been reading this thread with interest and I believe you all have missed a very important point. LOCATION can determine the percentage of pigeons capable of flying 500 mls. Here in Britain, if you lie on the east side of the country then I feel getting pigeons from the distance races is slightly easier. Well it is easier obviously, but then again not too many in the NRCC for instance fly the real distance. To, say from Thurso or Lewick especially to compare Louth, Lincoln, Norfolk etc. to flying Kiddiminster, West london, let alone Wales, Devon , Cornwall is a joke in reality. Sure they can't say too much.... or can they :-/ We flew the Faroes, east Norway. Bet your bottom dollar that the 'Names' in the East Coast Club wouldn't entertain it. Many have the birds, because of their set up to fly it any road. Nice to read Demolishion Mans comments regards of the LATE and Great F. Hall. He was also on of the 'Old Hands, with Stan Bishops etc. - there were five in all I believe - I am also correct, 99 .9 certain, that this was indeed the fellow that sorted Jim Biss's birds out, and bought for him when he Left London - where Biss had also flew well, to concentrate on a good location to achieve better things and ratings and merit. Now he could and did afford the birds true, but also knew how to fly them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Home alone was Robinsons great one. I handled Twighlight.... caused a hell of a stink. I was 11 at the time and just , well did it as one does lol. Also 'Starlight. I believe if memory serves me correct they were 'King Brothers. I know it fetch 3625 and was then a world record. I believe also Louis Masserella bought it. Next record was early 60's when Frankie George bought that Dutch bird (again I believe) for £700. Now that one made the TV and all the media. But again I'd venture that it is the Distance birds that have nigh always demanded the highest prices, and as I say, Most, if not all, strains of repute have the Distance birds to formulate them regardless what distance they eventually excell at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 if i send lets say 20 to thurso and its a decent race i will expect and have got 18 it does depend a lot on the race 2 years ago there was no birds home in race time in essex combine i never sent to that one i sent to lnrc untill this year every bird i had went to thurso including yearlings and to be honest i wouldnt hesitate to send a youngster there either if it was allowered i sent 6 youngsters 340 miles and done it with ease all home at the right time most races ifind is down to feed and preperation Have to agree 100%. I sent 3 y/b's to Thurso 469 miles in 1989 I believe. It was the Midland National Championship Club or something stupid that only rn for a few seasons. Was a diabolical so - called race. Non stop heavy rain, and was the first in the Northants Fed ever to do it. 2 out of the three before any other, and a vast radious after our fed too. We sometime get and Elgin race 380 miles or so. But haven't of late mores the pity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 I think it depends what you mean by 500 mile birds there are many that will get 500 but not go any further and there are others much rarer that will not start to perform until 400 up to 700 and some beyond. For the proper long distance bird you will find no pigeon will fly it, without a complete eye cere and the same can be said for the majority of 50- 500 mile pigeons. If it doesn't have a complete eye cere it won't do it and I'm not talking about pigeons that come in a couple of weeks I'm talking about the best pigeons. The eye cere doesn't need to be thick but it needs to be complete. Carney came to my loft twice in 02 & 04 when I was in Yorkshire and I was flabergasted that he would just look at them on the perch and be able to pick them, he didn't need to put his glass on or handle them. Now I don't know how but again I spent a lot more time looking at the birds on the perch trying to work this out and the eye cere (and the fllat head) were the two things that staood out for distance pigeons. I've since had Peter Van Eijden's dvd and he says the same and that's good enough for me!! (And my birds meet this criteria and every loft I've been to) albear,,,,now your talking about carney,,,the man of legend,,,,,with you there too !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slugmonkey Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 I agree that conditions are diffrent BUT have you ever flown a 30 mph+ tailwind and the thunderstorms we get here are like none other I live 100 miles from one of the windiest places on the planet Dodge City Kansas so I would say that the conditions here can get as bad as anywhere probably dont consistently have as heavy of weather as you do and definatly dont have the channel to contend with ... we also fly in Florida and conditions there are another story completly HUMIDITY is that game and feeding is diffrent and bop are as bad or worse there as anywhere else on earth the hawks winter there and if you open loft and dont pay attention you can lose 2 or 3 birds a DAY yes I said day we watched 3 hawks attack a group of birds within 10 minutes if you loft fly a hawk will come there is not anywhere I have ever seen or heard that bop problems are as bad as there every place has its pitfalls young birds in a 30 or 40 mile an hour tailwind have GOT to have good instinct as a bird travelling at 80+ miles an hour has very little room for error if they fall in with the group and go 20 miles past may take 2+ hours to fly back also a bird going that fast does not live through hitting wires I wittnessed a bird hit a wire and it was literally cut in 2 pieces I think day in and day out your conditions ARE tougher but I think the potential for the worst conditions lie here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 can't disagree with you slgmonkey know all about wires we have pylons and wires 50 yards behind loft we watch pigeons training hit 2-3 times weekly when racing season starts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDCHEQHEN Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 work this one out a partnership had a ch.hen never missed a channel race for 2 years won 8 topped the amal twice previous to this,this hen was cut down and used as a trapper I have a 2004 hen that is cut down every year and used as a trapper - she hasn't raced since she was a young bird, but I couldn't race her now (could I????) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 u cud try ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonpete Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 I have a 2004 hen that is cut down every year and used as a trapper - she hasn't raced since she was a young bird, but I couldn't race her now (could I????) depends if she is more useful to you at home? but as she is a 2004 bird, and you race hens, and is surplus, then why not??? see how she goes on in training, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albear Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 I agree that conditions are diffrent BUT have you ever flown a 30 mph+ tailwind and the thunderstorms we get here are like none other I live 100 miles from one of the windiest places on the planet Dodge City Kansas so I would say that the conditions here can get as bad as anywhere probably dont consistently have as heavy of weather as you do and definatly dont have the channel to contend with ... we also fly in Florida and conditions there are another story completly HUMIDITY is that game and feeding is diffrent and bop are as bad or worse there as anywhere else on earth the hawks winter there and if you open loft and dont pay attention you can lose 2 or 3 birds a DAY yes I said day we watched 3 hawks attack a group of birds within 10 minutes if you loft fly a hawk will come there is not anywhere I have ever seen or heard that bop problems are as bad as there every place has its pitfalls young birds in a 30 or 40 mile an hour tailwind have GOT to have good instinct as a bird travelling at 80+ miles an hour has very little room for error if they fall in with the group and go 20 miles past may take 2+ hours to fly back also a bird going that fast does not live through hitting wires I wittnessed a bird hit a wire and it was literally cut in 2 pieces I think day in and day out your conditions ARE tougher but I think the potential for the worst conditions lie here Hiya I hink you miss the point, it's not a macho thing i.e., 'it's harder for my birds than yours', it's simply locations, different weather patterns as you say .... but whereever you fly, the birds adapt to those conditions, the problem is in 95% of lofts only a few ever get 500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slugmonkey Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 I am not saying it's a macho thing either. I am saying the same thing you are although I dont belive that 95% is a fair number if what you are saying is true wouldnt a guy be better off with a whole team of pluggers that could make it home from 500 miles and not even worry about the shorter races ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Strangely enough Slugmonkey, I advocate that entirely. I personally don't want to get up in the night about 7 .30 to time in short races, so I can take the misses shopping or whatever twaddle many spout. I 'd much rather have a lay in. Infact I seldom ever do, and certainly haven't of late. Now if that means I send to expierence the birds, to get them honed to race finess, then so be it, for I am more than happy with the 1200 ypm races - or less - which are much more to my taste. Now if I lose those birds not happy with that, then fine, go and sit on a church top and save me feed. A good flyer when asked why he won't try the South Rd states simpley. 'I'm not interested in the 1500 ypm+ Velocities etc. and blow homes. I want the 1200y/pm or less'. etc. etc. Like the man says, 'Ask who won he 125 miler and it's hard to recall. Ask who won the 'Lerwick etc. and most know'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 must agree rather have 1200-1300 days we fly south rd. with w.or sw winds nearly every week so its the back lofts that benefit even more in shorter tail wind blow homes aftr all you can't give away overfly if your birds get over the top at least 300-550 slows them down and gives you amuch truer and enjoyable race. must admit though like all racing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slugmonkey Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 I agree 1200 is a race!!! although watching them come from a 2700 ypm in a flock is exciting much rather see 3 on the drop at 1200 A plugger can get lucky at 2700 but there is NO luck for a sprinter at 400 and 1200 ypm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwh Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 3 on the clock 123 any race wud b nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slugmonkey Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 We tried an interesting schedule we flew the 1, 2, 3,s from the north ( headwind ) and the 4, 5, 6,s from south ( tailwind ) it lasted 2 weeks most guys had no birds left this was to try and alleviate overfly advantage I am in the middle and it was a wet dream for me !!!! I won races both weeks wth taking 1-7 one week having only sent 8 of course I knew this was too good to last Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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