Is a pedigree worth anything?

[Guest]

When you buy a bird is the pedigree worth anything?

 

Wouldn't it be true that 9 times out of 10 its always going to be based on trust when you buy a bird even from the most expensive to the cheapest?  I know people who've bought for arguments sake a 'G/Son/G/Daughter of Sumo' for quite a bit of money, but how do you really know if it is what they say it is?  Do you simply go by what the seller says?  What if the seller genuinely doesn't know the true source of the parentage except the paperwork they have?  What if they bought directs of 'Sumo' in good faith only to find out that they aren't really directs?

 

Unless you get a DNA of both the parents (Sumo and Dam) you couldn't possibly know?   Even then you would have had to have had (in my example) the parents 'Sumo' DNA registered somewhere independantly to prove it valid or isn't that the case?  

 

The hard fact is that even from the biggest stud in the World to the smallest of fancier we often don't know WHAT we're really buying and a vast majority of the time have to base it on trust and trust alone.   Perhaps its time that there was a International Pigeon DNA Register where you could get your bird tested for authenticity then because as a few have said, pedigrees are not worth the paper they are written on.   Is there a database of DNA anywhere out of interest?

  

[jock3]

theres an old saying here ur eye,s are ur judge ?

[Guest]

The eye can't do a DNA that's a fact, birds can throw all sorts and you can't always tell by the eye no matter how experienced you are.  I do understand what your saying and often it is based on instinct but the fact of the matter, and it can't be diputed, you really don't know what your buying, you just THINK you do.

[jock3]

i agree with you . but its only as good as the man that writing it . and thats not a guarantee

[blaz]

i agree with you . but its only as good as the man that writing it . and thats not a guarantee

 

i would not trust to many writing a pedigree for me but this man hear i would.

[Guest]

i agree with you . but its only as good as the man that writing it . and thats not a guarantee

Exactly Jock3 and not casting shadows over the author of the pedigree what if he is only writing in what he BELIEVES to be true.  The only ones who will ever know the true source of a bird is the actual parents owners and perhaps a DNA bank if they've taken them steps.  Other than that its a very risky business buying in birds.   ??)   :o  

 

[Guest stb]

I never buy a pigeon bye pedigree. means nothing  could be any old crap on it.

 

another cock could have treaded hen.  only buy if you like bird.

 

[OLDYELLOW]

a pedigree is only as good as the person who writes it and human error can be a problem , best way to buy a bird is through your eyes if you like it buy it if not dont  

[Guest]

best way to buy a bird is through your eyes if you like it buy it if not dont  

Not if your paying thousands for it.  Seen the ugliest bird get thrown and turn out a winner, same problem when buying a YB, it can look as ugly as hell when put up for sale, but turn into a swan several months later.   Suppose it all depends on what your buying and how much your paying for it how serious you get on checking the birds history, if it was for serious money I for one wouldn't trust my eye.   ??)  

 

[OLDYELLOW]

Not if your paying thousands for it.  Seen the ugliest bird get thrown and turn out a winner, same problem when buying a YB, it can look as ugly as hell when put up for sale, but turn into a swan several months later.   Suppose it all depends on what your buying and how much your paying for it how serious you get on checking the birds history, if it was for serious money I for one wouldn't trust my eye.   ??)  

 

a fool and his money are easily parted , you can buy quality birds from quality stock and you need not empty the bank account thats for sure , as for checking dna ectra only one true line in many lofts and that decends from the hen any cock can tread her but she lays eggs in her own box unless there in individual breeding pens , a bird is only worth what your willing to pay for it .

[chaz]

I remember going to "Herbots Bros" and one of the party buying a YB by  "De Fenomenale" and he was given a DNA certificate with the bird and all the principal breeders were kept in individual breeding pens , so in that instance the pedigree would be pretty sound , but once the breeders are in a flock environment then pedigree`s are a bit of a lottery IMO

[Roland]

Only as good as the person writing them.... and how well you get on with each other.

[fred smyth]

what i want is a man who has time to bring u in and show you his birds , show u what ur getting not just a bit of paper ,, like last week i went to eamon wright s lofts he took me in let me handle the birds  showed me his stock  showed me his young bird team no bother, i   said i was in to eye sign ,, well he said wait till u see these ,, took me down to his stock loft and showed  me some grate pigeons ,, thats the type of man i like to  bye birds from  some one u no u can trust , and he gave me a 2 year grantee if they  dont breed winners he will replace them   sure were would u get that,, top class ,

[Guest shadow]

a lot of them are not worth the paper they are printed on most of my best birds over the years were birds gifted to me and formed into my own family, you can not fly bits of paper :)

[blaz]

i once bought a bird from a breeder buyer no bird their just pedigree . will let you know in a couple of hours if it was a wise move ;D : )

[Guest numpty01]

-peds float to the ground birds fly ;D ;D ;D

[Guest]

A top breeder of dogs once told me,buy with your hands not with your eyes, :)but all top pigeons always have a very good pedigree  :-/ its like buying a top of the rang car with no service history

[hotrod]

the best birds you will ever get is off friends, then you can be sure of what their off

[jock3]

the best birds you will ever get is off friends, then you can be sure of what their off

 

ur bang on mate, just got a son of de Barcelona for nowt

[Guest Owen]

There are some pedgrees worth believing. There ones you see in complete clearance sales with the prize cards attached. You then have the cross reference back to the ring number.

The ones I read in the press telling me that it's out of this that and the other thing are not unsually very reliable. Besides, the only birds worth breeding from are the actual bird who did the job. In human terms, how many brothers have the same talents, how many sons are as good as the father. We are on a hiding to nothing, because we don't want good performances we want the best. There are plenty of good pigeons who will come home, but and it's a big "BUT" how many of them are able to win races against the numbers we all compete against?

I have a policy of only breeding from winners and nothing else. And the pedigees I have, are written by me for me. And they are deadly accurate, there would'nt be much point in fooling myself, now would there?

[swilcox]

The pedigree gives you a guide to the type of distances and races that a pigeon may suit.

[Guest]

A top breeder of dogs once told me,buy with your hands not with your eyes, :)but all top pigeons always have a very good pedigree  :-/ its like buying a top of the rang car with no service history

Won't argue with that mate although using both is just as good?    Don't get me wrong, most breeders with a rep are well worth trusting, most have too much to lose if they ever get caught out. I definately agree with you on the need for a valid pedigree as in the example you gave your more likely to buy a car with FSH than not that is unless it looks good and feels good on the test run, same with the bird except your test run is down to training, you make an exception then don't you.     

 

 

 

 

 

[edwards]

i know of 2 men out of the same club great mates bought birds from a stud in england they bought 2 kits of 10 from the same stock one of them got there kit in january the other march now the january birds were 9 blues 1 checktip the march birds were gay pieds checks and blues not one of the january birds even feather wise size and shape looked any way like the march ones straight away they knew there was something seriously wrong they contacted this big stud and explained what the story was they told the men it was impossible they were from different stock the lads went one step further and had them tested there two kits that is one pair were related out of the two kits they got back onto the stud and told them what they done they were invited back over giving a pair of direct stock each other young and asked to keep it quiet it was a mix up ill leave you to decide if it was the only advise id give on buying birds is buy proven raced stock with there results it will cost you a bit more but at least you have a record of how the bird or birds peformed and more than likely of the same family honesty in our pigeon sport today has a massive black cloud above it.

[BLACK W F]

I HAVE HAD PIGEONS SINCE I COULD WALK LONG LONG AGO I WAS TAUGHT BY IN MY OPINION BY ONE OF THE GREATEST PIGEON MAN IN THE UNC  THERE ARE ONLY TWO TYPES OF PIGEONS THE ONES THAT SCORE OR BREED THE REST EAT AND CRAP  NO GOOD TO NO ONE

[holmsidelofts]

The problem with buying from a stud is they are in business to make money. I dont care what you say, if you order a kit of birds of a particular breed and the stud dont have any available they are not going to say to you 'sorry we dont have them' you'll get what ever birds are available and will be told thats the breed you ordered, They want to breed and sell as many birds as they can thats there business.

Thats the reason i would never ever buy birds from a stud. Find a very successful fancier with one family of birds and get to now the fancier well, then purchase from him.

I know if you buy from Jos Thone you get DNA records of the birds which i think is the only way to be 100% sure that they are out of what they say they are.

But as owen said nothing is guaranteed, great racers dont always make good breeders.