Vitamins!!! Not worth a jot!

[just ask me]

in my opinion there are   times when vitamins are needed,,with pigeons ,,whether their bought or found themselves by the pigeon,,,  but in reading some of the past posts, we are likening pigeons with humans , pigeons are completely different alltogether i,e their metabolism etc ,, as far as humans  go,  i beleive with proper diet, the  purchase of vitamins are useless, but there are cases in humans that lack vitamins through various reasons ,illnesses etc,

 

our pigeons are really forced to do the most un-natural thing in making them fly home from faraway distances , with pigeons returning home with sometimes  than half the weight they go away with, tha tis one of the reasons i beleive in vitamins for pigeons , they need these to build up again,,,different with pigeons un-raced and able to forge,  and find their own vits and minerals which would be quite sufficient for them , they would know what they want and when they want it ,, but pigeons going through un-natural stress i,e racing etc , i beleive will need vits,and minerals   to supplement their diet,  as it is us, the fancier that is depleting the pigeon of vitamins,  in putting these birds through some very difficult and strength sapping times ,, so vits for me in the correct doses

 

would agree jimmy about feeds it was more of a point i made that the quailty of food not what it used to be

 

that why we definaly need vits today

[jimmy white]

multi-vits are very cheap , but in my opinion the best pick me up is vit b ,, contained in beer yeast also very cheap and does the bird no harm whatsoever,,only my opinion

[Guest IB]

IB wrote,"Vitamin B12 is an interesting one, said to come only from animal origin? I know it's in hormoform, but there's evidence from Vegan (vegetarian) website that it is made in the gut by friendly bacteria, which the animal then absorbs. Seems bacteria make other vitamins too, or help in their digestion".

Due to an ilness my late mother had she could not eat any sort of fruit or veg.every other week the local nurse would call to inject her with B12 without this she fell seriously ill.

 

I’m sorry to hear of your mum’s illness. I was puzzled by B12 being injected rather than being given a B12 supplement. I’d referred in a previous post to vegan’s but that should be vegetarian’s website which I’d visited a while back looking at B12 info. This extract explains the circumstances when an injection is needed, and it appears it’s down to not being able to digest it, rather than not eating food containing it.

 

When deficiency occurs, it is more commonly linked to a failure to effectively absorb B12 from the intestine rather than a dietary deficiency. Absorption of B12 requires the secretion from the cells lining the stomach of a glycoprotein, known as intrinsic factor. The B12-intrinsic factor complex is then absorbed in the ileum (part of the small intestine) in the presence of calcium. Certain people are unable to produce intrinsic factor and the subsequent pernicious anaemia is treated with injections of B12.

 

Vitamin B12 can be stored in small amounts by the body. Total body store is 2-5mg in adults. Around 80% of this is stored in the liver.

 

Vitamin B12 is excreted in the bile and is effectively reabsorbed. This is known as enterohepatic circulation. The amount of B12 excreted in the bile can vary from 1 to 10ug (micrograms) a day. People on diets low in B12, including vegans and some vegetarians, may be obtaining more B12 from reabsorption than from dietary sources. Reabsorption is the reason it can take over 20 years for deficiency disease to develop in people changing to diets absent in B12. In comparison, if B12 deficiency is due to a failure in absorption it can take only 3 years for deficiency disease to occur.

 

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html

 

 

 

 

[Hogni]

Many studies done indicate that no matter how much vitamins you eat your body does not pick them up, but you can maximize the affect by eating this vitamin with oil the other with water and the third with something else as different vitamins need different types of food to get picked up by the body, hope you all know what i mean.

 

About the brewers yeast, this is the best stuff i have come across and don´t use anything else, i just love products that you can see a real difference.

[pigeonscout]

I was once told that the best greens you can feed your birds is in the form of rabbit food and the birds have no problem eating these small pellets that contain all that is in fresh greens. If you like elderberries you can mix then in blender then make ice cubes with the juice and this will keep them from going off. When you want to give it to your birds just pop an ice cube into the drinker. You can also soak garlic in water for 24 to 48 hours and then make that juice into ice cubes.

[Beanz]

In my opinion its not whether multi vits are any good but that one is no better than another, I use antec multivits which are £3-95 for a sachet which makes gallons think its just as good as all the dearer ones and birds look good, exercise well and win.

 

 

                                                                      Paul

[Tony C]

In my opinion its not whether multi vits are any good but that one is no better than another, I use antec multivits which are £3-95 for a sachet which makes gallons think its just as good as all the dearer ones and birds look good, exercise well and win.

 

 

                                                                      Paul

 

I use the same one myself..........and win.

[greenlands]

Hogni/pigeonscout, good posts like the info. IB thanks mate.Lindsay

[Guest IB]

Just a thought. What exactly are these vitamins in multi-vits? Are they the real thing, or something out of a lab, manufactured in a test-tube?

[Novice]

Just a thought. What exactly are these vitamins in multi-vits? Are they the real thing, or something out of a lab, manufactured in a test-tube?

 

 

Most of the multivitamins we buy for either human or animal nutrition will be synthetic----man made. Not in a lab but in a chemical plant.

The starting material can be either natural or synthetic----chemical.

 

For those who doubt the beneficial qualities of vitamins on humans I would ask that you try Berocca effervescent drinks particularly after a night on the p*ss. The vitamins which are destroyed by alcohol are replaced and they are a great tonic.

 

In all cases they are only useful if our diet is deficient.

 

[Guest Vic]

Ex Pat, Steve Patrick swears that by using the water from freshly cooked FRESH vegetables, especially the greens, is more beneficial to our birds than any of these quack vitamins on the shelf today.  I am not talking about frozen veg  (that most  of the women use these days)  Just a thought!  EX-CLAMATION, Vic!

[bewted]

Ex Pat, Steve Patrick swears that by using the water from freshly cooked FRESH vegetables, especially the greens, is more beneficial to our birds than any of these quack vitamins on the shelf today.  I am not talking about frozen veg  (that most  of the women use these days)  Just a thought!  EX-CLAMATION, Vic!

 

plenty of fresh vitamins and iron from cooking green vegetables !!!

[OLDYELLOW]

surely most of the vitamins are destroyed via the cooking process , although i used to give my birds vegetable water , didnt do them anyharm  

[les]

fresh greens , natural honey in water ,b12 cytacon , once a week will give them all the vits and mins  they cant get from their food ,also rock salt to pick at .

[Guest Vic]

During some fishing holidays that I enjoyed in Wiltshire, a few years back. It was a pleasure indeed,  to find that a brother in law of mine from Marlborough, was indeed an above average pigeon man. His name was Maurice Miller who raced in the NFC  under the name of Mr & Mrs Miller. He twice had prominent positions in the first ten from  the Pau NFC race. This in a hotbed of NFC members.

Doubly winning the Moonraker trophy for the first bird into Wiltshire. He made my holiday, spending much time exchanging our views on distance racing. Alas! He has since left our fraternity, but the green dicsussion will always remain with me.  Let me just say that Mo.

swore by WATER CRESS, which he could get from the upper reaches of the river Kennet.

He almost went as far as to say that this was the pigeons number one green.

[OLDYELLOW]

fresh greens , natural honey in water ,b12 cytacon , once a week will give them all the vits and mins  they cant get from their food ,also rock salt to pick at .

 

not salt again some might say they dont need it  

[les]

 

not salt again some might say they dont need it  

just wondering if you have seen the big blocks of rock salt ,it is full of all types of natural vits ,it is black and grey in colour ,not your ordinary salt  the pigeons go mad for it .ATB  les.

 

 

[OLDYELLOW]

just wondering if you have seen the big blocks of rock salt ,it is full of all types of natural vits ,it is black and grey in colour ,not your ordinary salt  the pigeons go mad for it .ATB  les.

 

 

i havent Les but surely a better way of giving it to them as they wouldnt eat if not nessasary , many years ago neighhbours had a goat and when they got rid of it they throw away the salt licks birds loved that as well , whats it called and who makes it ?

[pigeonscout]

surely most of the vitamins are destroyed via the cooking process , although i used to give my birds vegetable water , didnt do them anyharm  

 

Dr Ann Wigmore, one of the most well-known proponents of raw diets, even suggests that over 80% of the nutrition in food is destroyed via cooking!

PS I took the above statment from a vitamin web stie

 

[les]

 

i havent Les but surely a better way of giving it to them as they wouldnt eat if not nessasary , many years ago neighhbours had a goat and when they got rid of it they throw away the salt licks birds loved that as well , whats it called and who makes it ?

one of the farm stores will get it ,it is not made by any one it is a natural product strait out of the ground ,it looks just like a block of dirty ice it comes in all sizes and shapes .if you have never seen pigeons with it you will be amazed how much they crave it ,because it is probibly the most minnerals and vits  they could ever get all in one ,one thing to look out for is they go mad for it when feeding young ,so only put it in 2 times a week when breeding other wise the young birds dropings get a bit loose .

 

 

[OLDYELLOW]

i was thinking mainly summer usage   cheers Les  

[pigeonscout]

Kale is a very good green to give to the birds.

[les]

one of the farm stores will get it ,it is not made by any one it is a natural product strait out of the ground ,it looks just like a block of dirty ice it comes in all sizes and shapes .if you have never seen pigeons with it you will be amazed how much they crave it ,because it is probibly the most minnerals and vits  they could ever get all in one ,one thing to look out for is they go mad for it when feeding young ,so only put it in 2 times a week when breeding other wise the young birds dropings get a bit loose .

 

just like to add ,you can get about 15 killos for about £6 which will last 2or3 years if stored in a air tight contaner.

 

 

[OLDYELLOW]

cheers Les  

[joe61]

we at Timbarra use a sinthetic vitamin once evry 6 months, other than that we use the water used to boil our vegetables in, its got the lot, or chop up veg and friut but only small amount of fruit as it we be like laxative in overdose.

 

oh happy days